just do whatever they want

[Webbed Feet]

Contracts are only enforceable through litigation if one or both parties chooses to breach the contract.

That depends on the contract. Many of them require other types of contract settlement than litigation.

We've attempted to get clients to sign an engagement letter. So far we're zero for ten attempts. And, we're ten for ten lost potential clients. Webbed, while I respect, appreciate and sympathize with your argument, the facts leave little doubt that requiring a signed engagement letter is part of an equation to little if any business.

No, the only thing your "facts" prove is our trade insists on leaving itself naked and weaponless while standing in a meadow surrounded by predators. I am sorry, but you're post is really no different than one claiming to have lost ten clients because the appraiser would not agree to a prearranged opinion of value for the outcome. Perhaps the problem is really the schlocky ways all the appraisers around you allow themselves to be willingly abused and the nature of the the clients you never really had in the first place.

Our industry can stop the abuse. But we have to want to badly enough to do it.

Webbed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

pbk,

That's right; but the engagement letter question is important. I see this all the time here. I have nothing against the concept, it just sounds like a little too much for our clients to handle. It's sort of like a web site that asks them to sign-in. Why bother?

When somebody sends me an appraisal order I treat that as a contract.

Mr. Foley,

When someone sends me one of those no information "appraisal orders," I treat that as the starting part where I immediately have to pry all the USPAP required things out of them like intended users, intended use, SOW, and other parameters I need to know before I proceed. Because most of that is never on those orders. We can place limits on these "after the fact" demanded services. If the industry finally gets tired enough of all the crap pie it is being expected to eat.

Webbed.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Michael,
Its standard operating procedure to get the stips about newer, closer,
its not personal,

It's my standard operating procedure to tell them to go F*(& themselves....

We've attempted to get clients to sign an engagement letter. So far we're zero for ten attempts

I'm batting 100%. If they don't sign it, I don't do it. I may not get many mortgage brokers to bite, but I haven't run out of work yet doing it....don't work for MBs anyway with one exception.

My engagement template below...

 

[starmansf]

The intended user is different than the client. The client is the person who ordered the report. The intended user (lender) didn't place the order. The lender can use the report but the lender isn't the client.

 

[Joyce Potts]

Stip from broker: provide new sale and pending sale within 3 mos. on a 6 week old report.

"No. And send me the condition from the lender."

"It was sent. The processor sent (what she wants) to you."

"I don't want to know what your processor wants. I want to know what the lender wants."

"The lender works through us. You're supposed to just do whatever they want."

"Really? How do I know what they want if I never heard from them?"

1 week later:

"What's the problem? Why won't you give us what we want?"

"Why won't you give me what I want?"

Here we go:

"Appraiser to comment on foreclosures in the subject's market area and the resulting effect on market values. Provide detailed documentation to support all comments."

I just tell them the data they require simply doesn't exist, but thanks for playing the game. What I originally provided is pretty much solid and descriptive of the market. I can't make the appraisal any prettier or guideline complaint, so I suggest to them to make their lending decisions accordingly and don't make me the scapegoat.

I wonder if that's why I do very little MB work. Or is it just my people skills?

 

[starmansf]

I'm doing less and less. You're right, what they want doesn't exist. It never did.

 

[Webbed Feet]

The intended user is different than the client. The client is the person who ordered the report. The intended user (lender) didn't place the order. The lender can use the report but the lender isn't the client.

Definitions section of USPAP

INTENDED USER: the client and any other party as identified, by name or type, as users of the appraisal, appraisal review, or appraisal consulting report by the appraiser on the basis of communication with the client at the time of the assignment.

Mr. Foley,

It seems USPAP and your statement don't match exactly. The definition of Intended User includes the client. But then Fannie placed a title of "Lender/Client" on all of her forms and confused everybody as now we have "End Users" to consider.... .. But that's a different thread.

Webbed.

 

[starmansf]

Dear Webbed,

They'll always try to confuse you. The client, per USPAP, is the person who places the order. The last time I checked, not one bank has placed an order with me recently. Unless the lender calls me directly, they are not my client. You read things differently than I do. You are much more inclusive. I am not.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Dear Webbed,

They'll always try to confuse you. The client, per USPAP, is the person who places the order. The last time I checked, not one bank has placed an order with me recently. Unless the lender calls me directly, they are not my client. You read things differently than I do. You are much more inclusive. I am not.

Mr. Foley,

That is interesting. So if Fred Kiddlehopper with Old Time Mortgage Co. places an order with you, then it is Fred, and not Old Time Mortgage Co., that is your client. Maybe you meant person or entity by their employee or agent. But I understand what you are saying.

I am not inclusive either, if you had of seen my post regarding "Lender / Client" in that other thread you'd understand. It had to do with a client that had failed to identify an intended user at the time of engagement (assignment) and some "investors" demand that an additional intended user be added by the appraiser later.

Webbed.