Just learned VA Appraiser never came to house!

[heathpack]

This happens continuously here in AZ , easy to prove, but no one actually cares.


Simple question: How many Trainess, newly licensed, on this Forum have done a VA Appraisal??

So it is a common thing for a non-VA appraiser to go to the house and do the appraisal and then a VA appraiser writes up the report?

There is a mechanism on the appraisal report for having two appraisers both sign off if they work together on a appraisal. Why wouldn't both appraisers just sign the report? Is it because Mr. X is anot VA-approved?

H

 

[Ken B]

Wait I misunderstood your question. You were asking about the inspection date for the appraisal vs. the report date.

The inspection date was 6/2/09, the date the realtor met Mr. X at the property.

The report date was 6/9/09, the date Mr. Z signed the report.

H

What is the date on the bottom of Page 2 of the URAR (Form 1004)? What following is a copy of the information on the bottom of the standard form. What is the date shown in the area below which is highlighted red? If that date is the same date as the date that (X) was at the property, there may be a problem.

Indicated Value by: Sales Comparison Approach $ Cost Approach (if developed) $ Income Approach (if developed) $ This appraisal is made "as is", subject to completion per plans and specifications on the basis of a hypothetical condition that the improvements have been completed, subject to the following repairs or alterations on the basis of a hypothetical condition that the repairs or alterations have been completed, or subject to the following required inspection based on the extraordinary assumption that the condition or deficiency does not require alteration or repair: Based on a complete visual inspection of the interior and exterior areas of the subject property, defined scope of work, statement of assumptions and limiting conditions, and appraiser’s certification, my (our) opinion of the market value, as defined, of the real property that is the subject of this report is $ x,zzz,zzz , as of 00/00/0000, which is the date of inspection and the effective date of this appraisal.​

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Freddie Mac Form 70​

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March 2005​

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Page 2 of 6​

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Fannie Mae Form 1004​

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March 2005​

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Also, with regard to the question asking trainees if they have "done VA appraisals"...

A trainee can accompany and even provide "significant professional assistance"* to a VA appraiser. The requirement is that the VA appraiser inspect the property and be the only one signing the report.

*For the OP, the term in parentheses has a special meaning with regards to the appraisal process. If someone else provided this assistance, the person providing that assistance and identification of the assistance provided must be reported within the appraisal report. This is another reason not to throw darts at the VA appraisal based strictly on the information provided. Although it would be unusual, and suspect as a result, even if (X) inspected the property, it is possible that (Z) also inspected the property on the same date, if that is the date reported on the form in the section previously identified.

IF ANY appraiser signs as "did inspect", but did not, this would be a violation of ethics and worthy of an enforcement action. More than one appraiser has been fined, required to take remedial courses, and/or suspended for similar activities.

 

[Webbed Feet]

So it is a common thing for a non-VA appraiser to go to the house and do the appraisal and then a VA appraiser writes up the report?

Just a correction on vernacular. The "Appraisal" was the final opinion of value. Your "Mr. X" was collecting the field data needed for the assignment.

There is a mechanism on the appraisal report for having two appraisers both sign off if they work together on a appraisal. Why wouldn't both appraisers just sign the report? Is it because Mr. X is anot VA-approved?

H

We don't know the specifics here and they matter as different states all have different administrative rules for assistants. That said, I believe the VA itself requires the left signing appraiser to be on the VA roster. And THAT said, not doing so would more be a matter between the VA and the apprasier involved, than it would this sweeping damning thing you seem to be seeking for yourself to use.

If the VA requires the left signing appraiser to be on their roster and do have inspected the subejct property, and that appraiser did not, I am sure other VA roster appraisers in the area would appreciate you notifiying the VA of that fact. As to if this hands you any damages? Again, get a good lawyer.

Best Wishes to you.

 

[heathpack]

What is the date on the bottom of Page 2 of the URAR (Form 1004)? What following is a copy of the information on the bottom of the standard form. What is the date shown in the area below which is highlighted red? If that date is the same date as the date that (X) was at the property, there may be a problem.

Indicated Value by: Sales Comparison Approach $ Cost Approach (if developed) $ Income Approach (if developed) $ This appraisal is made "as is", subject to completion per plans and specifications on the basis of a hypothetical condition that the improvements have been completed, subject to the following repairs or alterations on the basis of a hypothetical condition that the repairs or alterations have been completed, or subject to the following required inspection based on the extraordinary assumption that the condition or deficiency does not require alteration or repair: Based on a complete visual inspection of the interior and exterior areas of the subject property, defined scope of work, statement of assumptions and limiting conditions, and appraiser’s certification, my (our) opinion of the market value, as defined, of the real property that is the subject of this report is $ x,zzz,zzz , as of 00/00/0000, which is the date of inspection and the effective date of this appraisal.
[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow][FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow]Freddie Mac Form 70 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow][FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow]March 2005 [/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow][FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow]Page 2 of 6 [/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow][FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow]Fannie Mae Form 1004 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow][FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial Narrow]March 2005 [/FONT][/FONT]​

quote]

The date on my report that corresponds to the red highlighted area of your quote is 6/2/09. This is the date that Mr. X went to the property.

H

 

[heathpack]

Just a correction on vernacular. The "Appraisal" was the final opinion of value. Your "Mr. X" was collecting the field data needed for the assignment.



We don't know the specifics here and they matter as different states all have different administrative rules for assistants. That said, I believe the VA itself requires the left signing appraiser to be on the VA roster. And THAT said, not doing so would more be a matter between the VA and the apprasier involved, than it would this sweeping damning thing you seem to be seeking for yourself to use.

If the VA requires the left signing appraiser to be on their roster and do have inspected the subejct property, and that appraiser did not, I am sure other VA roster appraisers in the area would appreciate you notifiying the VA of that fact. As to if this hands you any damages? Again, get a good lawyer.

Best Wishes to you.

Thanks. We actually have spoken to our lawyer and his opinion is posted previously. We now concur that we really don't have any leg to stand on as far feeling that we are out financially because of the appraisal & we were way off the mark 10 posts or so ago.

The left signing appraiser is Mr. Z. There is no right signing appraiser. The report says in several places that the appraiser is attesting to the fact that he/she has personally inspected property.

You know the thing that even got us looking in to this is the fact that we felt there was some degree of incompetence because of the appraiser using older comps when newer ones were available to him. We recognize that we do not have the training or knowledge to really make this judgement, but it sure seemed so to us. Then the appraiser told us he'd reassess but then left town for a week without doing so (yes, I do get from everybody's posts that there is something fishy about the way our lender went about asking-- but we did not know so at the time). So we got more irritated and started looking into this guy's competence level, which lead us to realize that he never came out to the house, the guy that did come out is non-VA, and so on...

I am a medical professional and I train young pups in our field. I always advise the kids that the best thing you can do is always do what you say you'll do. Otherwise people get really aggravated and you create a lot of trouble for yourself. I think this is a really great example of that concept.

H

 

[Ken B]

Based on the additional information provided throughout this thread, I am of the opinion that the VA appraiser has some explaining to do. The OP's lender and VA may be victims of fraudulent activity. (My intent is not to snub the OP, but to clarify the identity of the clients who had specific expectations regarding the ethical conduct of the engaged appraiser.)

Kudos to the OP for maintaining their composure and continuing this discussion. FTR, anyone can make a complaint to the State Appraiser's Board if unethical acivity is suspected. The more evidence provided to the state in support of the claim, the more likely enforcement action will be pursued.

http://www.orea.ca.gov/html/enforcement.shtml

 

[heathpack]

Guess who's now agreed to come out to the house?

Did anyone out there guess it's Mr. Z himself? Well, I don't have the all the details yet because husband is the one that has talked to our realtor (who in turn heard from our mortgage banker). But this morning I called banker and told him he must make this right. Insisted that banker contact Mr. Z and tell him the jig is up and that he must come out to the property and really do an appraisal. Result is that Mr. Z will be there Monday morning at 11am. Not sure if he acutally admitted to not having come to the house previously. Will let you all know if I ever find out...

Again, I thank everyone so much for their time and help with this. It really helps to have the appraiser's perspective so that we don't think or say things that are crazy. I find it extraordinary that so many of you are willing to take the time.

H

 

[Vegan702]

It may be that Mr.Z and Mr.X are reading this very thread.

 

[Webbed Feet]

<....snip.....> I am a medical professional and I train young pups in our field. I always advise the kids that the best thing you can do is always do what you say you'll do. Otherwise people get really aggravated and you create a lot of trouble for yourself. I think this is a really great example of that concept.

H

That is sort a funny.. my board says "Say what you do and do what you say!"

It may seem I've been defending this appraiser up till now. But I'm going to flip flop somewhat at this point. If this appraiser has really nailed themself in getting caught signing certifications that they inspected, when they did not, at least for this one case the person tossed their integrity to the winds. Maybe in the future they will get their integrity back, maybe not. But come Monday at 11am, they are going to be waddling into your home with their pants down around their ankles and egg on their face. This brings up another serious issue. This person has to either amend the old report, or create an entirely new one. Regardless, they have to certify again that they are doing so as an unbiased party.

Little problem. How does one maintain being unbiased when they've been caught to this degree doing something that speaks directly to their personal integrity? I can't advise you what would be best for you, only you can do that. But personally I would demand an entirely different appraisal business (different VA appraiser) be used and this person can chat with the bank about THEIR problem he caused due to his lack of integrity. But that's just me....

Again, the best to you.

 

[heathpack]

That is sort a funny.. my board says "Say what you do and do what you say!"

It may seem I've been defending this appraiser up till now. But I'm going to flip flop somewhat at this point. If this appraiser has really nailed themself in getting caught signing certifications that they inspected, when they did not, at least for this one case the person tossed their integrity to the winds. Maybe in the future they will get their integrity back, maybe not. But come Monday at 11am, they are going to be waddling into your home with their pants down around their ankles and egg on their face. This brings up another serious issue. This person has to either amend the old report, or create an entirely new one. Regardless, they have to certify again that the are doing so as an unbiased party.

Little problem. How does one maintain being unbiased when they've been caught to this degree doing something that speaks directly to their personal integrity? I can't advise you what would be best for you, only you can do that. But personally I would demand an entirely different appraisal business (different VA appraiser) be used and this person can chat with the bank about THEIR problem he caused due to his lack of integrity. But that's just me....

Again, the best to you.

We'd love to get an entirely new appraiser, but we're scheduled to close July 1. We've not yet told the seller what's been going on-- we're pretty sure he'd just walk away from the transaction and we do want to buy the house. If we demand a new appraiser we fear the whole deal will just fall apart. We will absolutely do right by the seller in the end- even if we wind up just writing him a personal check for that 1% price reduction he agreed to. And we will tell him. We just want to wait until we can present him with a solution rather than a problem.

Hopefully this will inject a good bit of worry into the rest of Mr. Z's vacation and he can think long and hard about how he will handle all of this when he gets back.

We are confident enough in our valuation of the house that we'll buy it anyway with the current (in our opinion) lowball appraisal. So as much as we'd love a real appraisal, I don't think we'll be getting one in this particular transaction.

By the way, I think the banker is a little afraid of me now.

H