Landlocked Subject

[Joker]

To answer some questions:
First of all, BB-Who do you think is the borrower? Who else but a timber man would own such a parcel? This guy bought about 250 acres along with this tract, harvested the timber and resold the 250 acres in smaller pieces. This tract did not join the 250 acres but in order to get them, he had to take the 40.

No laws against landlocked parcels. Planning Commission just informed me that since it is an existing tract, it is LEGAL to transfer this parcel to anyone. If they are not an adjacent property owner, they better have a helicopter and a drop down ladder. This tract has been around since the creation of the county. (40 acres mean anything to anyone?) The deed references that this is a landlocked tract.

Lender wants it appraised as if it had acccess. Question is, since I know (with further verification from Cat) that as is, the as is market value is roughly half of that amount, is it misleading, even with an Otis sized addendum? Time is of the essence, since I am doing 15 appraisals for this borrower including houses, vacant land, and commercial properties. From the client's perspective. this piece of collateral is peanuts compared to the size of the portfolio. I already assured them that they did not want to mortgage a parcel containing a wood by-products pile about 30' high and 10 acres wide. They do however, want this parcel.

 

[Otis Key]

40 acre parcel of landlocked woodland in God's country

DW - I didn't know we had too many woodland parcels out here :rofl: :rofl:

Actually, have you checked to see if your state has something similar to what we have out here that's called "prescriptive easement"? Another question is how has anyone been getting to the site? How did you get out there? Has anyone been maintaining the property? How did they get there?

The "prescriptive easement" aspect is effectively legal access to the site by legal court proceedings due to the fact that it has been in use for XX years. The courts then award the easement by the fact that it has been used for so long and it's recognized and accepted. Someone would need to file for the access easement due to that aspect. It might slow down the appraisal but then everyone would be able to have legal access. Just a thought.

 

[Joker]

Cannot be an easement by prescription when there has not been access to it. No roadway, no trail. The property is just friggin woods. No one maintains it. The owner has owned it for over 4 years and never been on it. I don't know if anyone has been on it. If they so, they were trespassing. The nearest road is nearly 1/4 mile from the edge of the property.

Good question Otis: How can I see it? Appalachian terrain allows for one to view tree tops and arial maps and photos assist. Is this sufficient for appraisal inspection? Can you write me an addendum?

 

[Otis Key]

Cheese it! :rofl: :rofl: Write your own friggen addedum :rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro: BTW - don't forget to send Tim about 20 copies of that addendum - he LOVES to read them. Wakes him up in the middle of the night.

It was just a thought - I did one about 20 years ago and found out that the guy kept saying it was land locked. Met him and he just drove out to the site. Excuse me but how cattle do you have out here? 15 head. How often do you come out here to feed and water? Almost every day. How long you been doing that? 20 years or so. So much for landlocked.

 

[Alan Simmons]

In my neck of the woods there are also usage laws. For example, if a property is only accessible by an easement across someone else’s property then (no matter how big the property) only ONE residence can be located on the property.

I still have not been able to determine how waterways (public creeks, streams, et al) play into things.

 

[Bobby Bucks]

I suppose I should have defined timber "cruiser". They're not necessarily in the business of buying timber personally. They do what we do, only it deals with trees, but don't have USPAP hanging over their shoulders. They drive, walk or maybe only fly over the property. They estimate a value for the timber only. I know one personally and he assures me the value of 100 acres of pulpwood is usually worth less than 100 acres of 500 year old cypress.

 

[Joker]

BB-Thanks for cleaing up the term. Since Mead paper is one of the largest land owners in this area, I assume they have some employees do the job you are speaking of.
Generally, however, in this part of Appalachia, we have several men in the timber business. The wealthiest guys I know are in wood products businesses. Typically, they buy land (often with cash) and harvest select or clear cut then sell residual land. These guys own thousands of acres. They are the "go to" guys for finding woodland sales and for determining timber values, because they all are also buyers of standing timber. Since there are several of them, the competition keeps 'em honest. I have been asked several times to appraise timber and I always refer to these guys since I don't do it. Timber is a commodity, like anything else, that varies. One year walnut will be up and oak is down, next year different story. None of them know of anyone who appraises timber for a living. Most of them do it for free, in hopes of being able to buy the timber some day. All of them will come to your property and bid for your trees.

 

[Otis Key]

Originally posted by Bobby Bucks@Jul 26 2004, 03:23 PM
I suppose I should have defined timber "cruiser". They're not necessarily in the business of buying timber personally. They do what we do, only it deals with trees, but don't have USPAP hanging over their shoulders. They drive, walk or maybe only fly over the property. They estimate a value for the timber only. I know one personally and he assures me the value of 100 acres of pulpwood is usually worth less than 100 acres of 500 year old cypress.

Yes Mr Bucks - good thing you did clear that up - otherwise Hopland might have thought it was the "hookers if its Oakland" that he knows. :rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

 

[Farm Gal]

Doug:

Get instruction from your cleint IN WRITING as to how they want this particular piece appraised...

Make it 'as instructed'.

Remember scope in the context of intended use drives the appraisal these days... :idea:

In the general scope of the cleint's intended use as explained to you, this one particular property's oddity and diminished value compared to acessable properties... placed in the whole purpose of the multiple assignments sounds pretty small peanuts.

You could (with appropriate disclaimers) perform that one appraisal 'any way the cleint wants it served...'

I'd sure take a stab at a few interviews with other timber buyer folk... and see what they say as anecdotal evidence as to 'actual as-is value'... Remember that some states are more sticky than others as regards the requirement to 'establish effect on value' of any hypothetical conditions or extraordinary assumptions you employ in the develpment of a value opinion.

Those guys who trade timeberland like playing cards are prolly your best bet. B)