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Let The Borrower Pick The Appraiser

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I adjusted in those cases where it affected prices, and better yet tried to avoid using the sales were buyer behavior /loan terms or seller contributions affected prices...even though mainstream prices were high, some transactions were far more affected than others.

Attacking me does not relieve you of your lack of diligence in your appraisals during that time, if that was the case.

Will take a break now as really have to get back to work.
 
Thou prosteth too much comes to mind.

What are you saying...that an appraiser is not supposed to say anything about market conditions ? It has nothing to do with fortune telling. There is nothing to be proud of if you shirked responsible reporting during the bubble and did not describe market conditions for what they were, or portrayed the market as stable with no spike in investor activity or flipping or stimulus due to financing of no money down etc.... (misleading)
You cannot cite any post in which I have ever stated that appraisers should not analyze and report market conditions and once again you have posted completely unsupported statements about what you think that I did during the bubble when you have undoubtedly never have seen any of my appraisal reports and actually have no idea whatsoever about what I did or did not do when the bubble was inflating (or at any other time).

You post nonsense like that and then wonder why I don't respect you? You really are truly clueless.
 
How do you know such a comment is not meaningful? .
Probably because (like me) he included comments in numerous appraisal reports that informed the lender that the market was likely unsustainable and not once did those comments result in a lender choosing not to make the loan or even result in a phone call from a lender or underwriter to discuss the market conditions that we were observing.
 
You cannot cite any post in which I have ever stated that appraisers should not analyze and report market conditions and once again you have posted completely unsupported statements about what you think that I did during the bubble when you have undoubtedly never have seen any of my appraisal reports and actually have no idea whatsoever about what I did or did not do when the bubble was inflating (or at any other time).

You post nonsense like that and then wonder why I don't respect you? You really are truly clueless.

Read your own posts on this thread and see what they sound like. You are attacking an appraiser (me), for being diligent and describing market conditions accurately or adjusting for undue stimulus when warranted back in the bubble? Frightening that you are in the position you hold.
 
Probably because (like me) he included comments in numerous appraisal reports that informed the lender that the market was likely unsustainable and not once did those comments result in a lender choosing not to make the loan or even result in a phone call from a lender or underwriter to discuss the market conditions that we were observing.

Does't matter if the lender went ahead and loaned or not if we made those comments . We fulfilled our responsibility and made them .
 
Does't matter if the lender went ahead and loaned or not if we made those comments . We fulfilled our responsibility and made them .
Thanks, Cap'n Obvious
 
Read your own posts on this thread and see what they sound like. You are attacking an appraiser (me), for being diligent and describing market conditions accurately or adjusting for undue stimulus when warranted back in the bubble? Frightening that you are in the position you hold.
Again with the lies and misrepresentations about my position. I have never once stated that an appraiser should not be diligent and describe the market conditions accurately nor have I ever stated that an appraiser should not adjust for undue stimulus when warranted. What I have disagreed with is your statements that all properties were overvalued during the bubble and with your statements about what constitutes undue stimulus.

If you can provide intelligent and credible answers to all of the following questions, then I will be glad to reconsider my view on the matter:

1). In what year exactly did you determine that nearly all properties were overvalued in your markets? In some of the areas in which I appraised there was 10-25% appreciation every year from the end of 2001 right up until 2007.

2) Did you determine that virtually all properties were overvalued right when it all began in 2001 or 2002 (when the bubble just started to inflate), or did you make that determination in 2004 or 2005 (before prices appreciated another 50% or so before the 2007 implosion) or did you make that determination in 2006 or 2007 right before the bubble popped and what support did you have for your conclusion if there was an active market with numerous willing buyers paying these prices who surely must have been aware of the rapid appreciation?

3). How did you know that the high rates of appreciation were not a replay of the period from in the 1970's when house prices in the US in creased by 267% in ten years (From a median price of $23,600 in January, 1970 to $62,900 in Jan., 1980) which did not result in an implosion? (Many of us realized that there was a bubble that was likely unsustainable, however virtually non one knew exactly how long the bubble would continue to inflate before it finally popped and no one knew how much it would deflate when it did pop (nobody knew for sure whether the bubble popping would cause the market to give up 100% (or more) of its gains since 2002, 75% of the gains, 50% of the gains, 25% of the gains, 10% of the gains, etc)

4) In 2006 and early 2007 right before the bubble burst did you adjust every comparable sale in every appraisal due to "undue stimulus" or "not prudent buyer behavior) since by that time over 50% of mortgage originations were Alt-A/subprime loans and there had already been 4 - 5+ years of very large increases in sale prices/property values?

5) By what objective standard did you judge buyer behavior not to be prudent during the bubble and how did you determined the amount of the adjustment for "imprudent buyer behavior"? Was the buyer who bought a property in 2004 or 2005 using a 100% LTV interest only loan when markets were appreciating at 25% or greater per year in many areas imprudent when that buyer flipped the property 12 months later at a very substantial profit? Or was a similar buyer only imprudent when he made a similar transaction in 2006 and did not flip the property in time before the bubble burst in 2007?
 
I have work to do and am not going to go back and revisit my reports back in 2006 and 2007 to answer your questions Why should I do that? (unless you want to pay me for the considerable time it would take.) How about this, go back and look at
your reports from that time frame and report back to me on them,

Nothing in appraisal practice, outside of yourself, indicates that including during the boom, there has to be an adjustment in EVERY appraisal for EVERY sale for undue stimulus. An adjustment for undue stimulus, as with concessions, is appropriate to make on a case by case basis, when seen to affect price to be different than what a property would have sold for without it.

You might want to ask yourself why you are attacking me for being diligent back in the boom. Why aren't you attacking the number hitters and appraisers that pushed value?
 
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Again with the lies and misrepresentations about my position. I have never once stated that an appraiser should not be diligent and describe the market conditions accurately nor have I ever stated that an appraiser should not adjust for undue stimulus when warranted. What I have disagreed with is your statements that all properties were overvalued during the bubble and with your statements about what constitutes undue stimulus.

What lies? Look at your own posts on this thread attacking me, and any appraiser who did not merely report the market and nothing more what message it conveys. Your hostile position about adjusting for undue stimulus, such as above ,#378 speaks for itself. Don;'t say one thing and then backtrack as if you did not say it.

My statement (in answer to someone else btw, that all properties were over valued happens to hold true, in those markets where virtually all properties plunged in value after the bubble....how do you reconcile a loss of 40% or more in a year-18 months? The property was not over valued, it dropped 40% for no reason?
Homes here sold at high prices during the boom still have not gone back to their bubble sale price, they are still about 30% below, even with robust market recovery in past 3 years. But according to you, they were not over valued in the boom. If you cant' understand the impact of 110% loan to value with no money down no doc loan with a 1% teaser rate as a stimulus, I don't know what to say.
 
I have work to do and am not going to go back and revisit my reports back in 2006 and 2007 to answer your questions Why should I do that? (unless you want to pay me for the considerable time it would take.) How about this, go back and look at
your reports from that time frame and report back to me on them,

You are not a review appraiser, your comments about appraisals frankly are weak, moreover your posts toward me have a pattern of being hostile. I would have to be foolish
to answer your question which are not put forward in good faith. They are put forward in a gotcha scenario. Nothing in appraisal practice, outside of yourself, indicates that including during the boom, there has to be an adjustment in EVERY appraisal for EVERY sale for undue stimulus. An adjustment for undue stimulus, as with concessions, is appropriate to make on a case by case basis, when seen to affect price to be different than what a property would have sold for without it.

You might want to ask yourself why you are attacking me for being diligent back in the boom. Why aren't you attacking the number hitters and appraisers that pushed value?
I did not expect an intelligent and credible response to those questions from you so this is not a surprise. By the way, I have never attacked you for being diligent...I have no doubt that you were diligent, however I think that you were diligent but engaged some appraisal practices that were just dead wrong (based on your posts) and several your positions are illogical, indefensible and demonstrate a lack of understanding between an overvalued appraisal and overvalued/bubble market.

The most important question of the bunch that I posed is question #4, which you surely know the answer to without looking up your old appraisals from that time period.
4) In 2006 and early 2007 right before the bubble burst did you adjust every comparable sale in every appraisal due to "undue stimulus" or "not prudent buyer behavior) since by that time over 50% of mortgage originations were Alt-A/subprime loans and there had already been 4 - 5+ years of very large increases in sale prices/property values?

Either the answer is yes or no (I highly suspect it is no).

If the answer is yes, then you simply created unsupported appraised values out of thin air to reflect what you think that market value should have been instead of the actual market value as indicated by the data in the market using the typical F/F definition of market

If the answer is no, then that confirms that the following statement that you made earlier in this thread is complete malarky: "I understand that in the worst of the boom, nearly all properties became over valued."

Question 5 is also pretty interesting, but I am guessing that you utilized no actual objective standard to make this judgment nor can you cite any accepted appraisal methodology that you utilized to determine the amount of adjustments that you made for "imprudent buyer behavior" (I doubt that any appraisal textbook even discusses adjusting "for imprudent buyer behavior" and I also doubt that any textbook provides any appraisal methodology for making a bubble market adjustment of some sort on a current (as opposed to prospective) market value appraisal.
5) By what objective standard did you judge buyer behavior not to be prudent during the bubble and how did you determined the amount of the adjustment for "imprudent buyer behavior"? Was the buyer who bought a property in 2004 or 2005 using a 100% LTV interest only loan when markets were appreciating at 25% or greater per year in many areas imprudent when that buyer flipped the property 12 months later at a very substantial profit? Or was a similar buyer only imprudent when he made a similar transaction in 2006 and did not flip the property in time before the bubble burst in 2007?
 
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