Let's Talk About What C&R Really Means And How It's Determined

[Peter LeQuire]

True,
But they cut the commissions of the LOs, so why would the "good" ones stay in those positions? But it's not an issue because the LO can't choose the appraiser, therefore all fees are up in the air until the AMC says what they are.
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I know the processing has changed, but somebody with any sense or experience ought to know that the appraisal for an atypically large, very expensive, amenities intensive house is going to cost more than an appraisal for an SFB in Homogenous Acres.

 

[Meandering]

uh huh,

And their pet appraiser quit posting here.

Think the Congressmen's refi's are going to Street links to choose an appraiser?



Think Angelo didn't refi into these new low rates, and let Axios choose his appraiser?



Or maybe even Joan's refi was sent to Coester, and the lowest bidder on their panel "got the job".


Oh wait, Coester has had a flat fee since 2013, so they can't have a lower or upper level of fees.


Somebody is "choosing" appraisers.

.

 

[TRESinc]

Why are some appraisers willing to allow someone else determine what is a "Customary & Reasonable" fee for their business? It is your business. "Customary & Reasonable" is what you determine it is. You know your cost of doing business so charge accordingly. If an appraiser is allowing someone else to dictate their fees, then they have nothing to whine about. Take some personal responsibility, act like a business owner and set your own fees, otherwise "What you allow is what will continue."

typically the need to eat and have a roof overhead outweighs the desire to hold out for more money for most appraisers. god help all those appraisers on the VA panel who succumb to what the VA says they have to accept for an appraisal fee. maybe someday they too will " Take some personal responsibility, act like a business owner and set their own fees".

 

[Meandering]

So how then can C&R be established in an area where there has been no 'third party survey' done, and where appraisers don't know a range of fees in their area for a particular type of appraisal service because they don't talk with one another?

COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE


FOR

SENATE BILL NO. 2671

AN ACT TO AMEND SECTION 73-34-9, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972, TO 1 AUTHORIZE THE MISSISSIPPI REAL ESTATE APPRAISER LICENSING AND 2 CERTIFICATION BOARD TO ESTABLISH STANDARDS FOR MEASURING CERTAIN 3 RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES AND TO CONDUCT A SURVEY OF CERTAIN 4 APPRAISAL FEES; TO CREATE SECTION 73-34-133, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 5 1972, TO CREATE THE APPRAISAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY RECOVERY FUND; TO 6 CREATE SECTION 73-34-135, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972, TO PROVIDE FOR 7 THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE FUND BY THE MISSISSIPPI REAL ESTATE 8 APPRAISER LICENSING AND CERTIFICATION BOARD; TO AMEND SECTION 9 73-34-101, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972, IN CONFORMITY THERETO; TO 10 AMEND SECTION 73-34-103, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972, TO REMOVE THE 11 SURETY BOND REQUIREMENT FOR REGISTRATION; AND FOR RELATED 12 PURPOSES.

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2014/pdf/SB/2600-2699/SB2671PS.pdf
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[SpartanAG]

typically the need to eat and have a roof overhead outweighs the desire to hold out for more money for most appraisers. god help all those appraisers on the VA panel who succumb to what the VA says they have to accept for an appraisal fee. maybe someday they too will " Take some personal responsibility, act like a business owner and set their own fees".

It's a choice to be on the VA panel, just as it is a choice to except the fee's VA pays. If one chooses to work for the VA, I would assume that the fee they accept is adequate to cover expenses and provide enough profits to run their business. I don't hear many appraisers whining about VA fee's. They pay $400-$500 a pop in my market and they usually get another $100 reinspect fee for some deficiency.

It is not up to the government to force AMC's to pay appraisers more (or less) so the appraiser can have enough money to put food in their belly and a roof over their head. It is up to the appraiser to run their business successfully enough that they can do those things for themselves. Many appraisers may understand how to appraise, but they have no concept how to run a business. Instead of using government force to make AMC's pay more, perhaps those appraisers who are failing at running their businesses should look for other employment. The reality is: Not everyone can be successful at a given job. Not everyone can be NFL quarterback. Not everyone can run an appraisal business. That isn't to knock anyone specifically; it just is. I would be spectacular failure if was to be hired as a salesman, so I'm not a salesman. I know of many fantastic appraisers who work for someone else, because they couldn't make it on their own as a business owner.

Think about this: If we get government involved in how much we are compensated for our services, it is true that fee's may go up. They could very well also go down also. Government generally bends to the will of the lobbyists with the money. Banks, Realtor's and AMC's have the money and lobbyists and they would like to pay us less. Government involvement may help those that make $200 per assignment make $300, but how many appraisers will that new $300 per assignment ruling hurt?

 

[TRESinc]

i never promoted any form of government controlling appraisal fees nor will i ever. of the 5 clients i have only one is an AMC, and that is a direct result of one lender choosing to use them and disbanding their panel, and that AMC makes up less than 10% of my income now so you can throw the AMC argument out the window. the only point i ever made in this thread was that it's easy to sit in a chair somewhere in the country and tell everyone else what they should or should not be doing, and what fees they should be getting, without knowing what is happening in someone else's market. in mine for example outside of VA an appraiser would starve holding out for $400+ fees on every order. the norm here, and that is backed up by the many, many conversations i have had with many, many local appraisers, is $325-350 for conventional loan appraisals. armchair quarterback is the easiest position to play.

 

[Meandering]

It is not up to the government to force AMC's to pay appraisers more (or less) so the appraiser can have enough money to put food in their belly and a roof over their head. It is up to the appraiser to run their business successfully enough that they can do those things for themselves.

You're right.

It's up to the government to enforce anti-trust laws,

But that is so messy and expensive, it's just cheaper and easier to hammer AMCs for not paying C&R than for violating anti-trust laws.

Profits from criminality flow two ways.

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[SpartanAG]

TRESinc: Please understand that my comments were not directed at you specifically, but in general. I fully understand there are different markets and each appraisers financial situation is different. While there are some that can be successful at $200 per assignment, there are others that will fail at $400 an assignment. Why are AMC's offering and appraisers accepting $200 fee's in some markets? Because that is what that specific market has determined appraisal services are worth. If those appraisers that choose to accept the fee can make it, good for them. My issue is with the appraisers begging for the government to come in and determine C&R instead of setting their own fees. More government involvement, will not solve the problem. Appraisers must determine what their own C & R fees are. What I consider C & R will most certainly differ from what another appraiser will consider C & R. If the government becomes involved with setting C & R, I'm willing to bet that many appraisers will be dissatisfied with the result.

 

[Howard Klahr]

it's easy to sit in a chair somewhere in the country and tell everyone else what they should or should not be doing, and what fees they should be getting, without knowing what is happening in someone else's market.

I don't have to know what is going on in any one's market. Their market knows. You remember the laws of supply and demand, marginal elasticity and that there are more than one source of demand for professional services.

 

[J Grant]

Originally C and R was supposed to be based on the govt standard of VA and other studies , VA pays $400 and above,