MAI - Is it worth it?

[Mountain Man]

Good point Rouster, being a "lender" doesn't always mean being federally regulated. There is lots of private $$$ for investors.

 

[Lost Cause]

Correction!

If you ever check the regs of the appraisal departments for some lenders, they state (for a commercial appraisal) they can only bid out reports to MAI's

This is absolutely incorrect. At least for federally-regulated lenders it is; private money lenders may do anything they please.

 

[Rouster]

Well, I am reading from an engagement letter dated September 2012. The lender is a large bank that has branches in a number of states (they most definately meet the criteria of a federally regulated lender). Fourth item down reads: "The senior appraiser shall be certified as a Real Estate Appraiser in the State of (name of state) as of the effective date of the report. If this is a commercial property, the senior appraiser must hold an MAI or SRA designation with the Appraisal Institute as of the effective date of the report".

 

[David Mescon]

In case you haven't noticed - large banks are immune from most laws insofar as enforcement goes - they can, and do, essentially whatever they want, and there really isn't anything you or I can do about it.

 

[aalderman1]

It's Complicated

I understand the OP's position. I'm 35 and a newly minted CG and struggle with this as well. I am currently a Candidate for Designation, but I am ambivalent about actually getting the designation. Here's my two cents for whatever it's worth on the arguments I've heard here and elsewhere:

1. The more work and money argument: There are door that will not open b/c of this designation; that's a given. The other side of the argument though is that there is plenty of work out there. My guess is that what people mean when they say "more business as an MAI" is that more people will cold call/email you for a bid. But appraising is a business built on trust more than anything else. Do good work and network and you won't lack for work MAI or not. Also, as for the 'types' of work, that's really a function of your business. Do you network? Do you take courses and increase your competency? Do you go after that work? The first thing I did once I became a CG was to study up on Eminent Domain appraising (taking courses, taking specialist appraisers out to lunch (who BTW weren't MAIs), reading books, articles, etc.). I then wooed the Area Appraiser at the DOT office and got on DOT's list. Now I do quite a bit of right of way appraising. It's hard; it's not the same as the work I did with my old boss, but they don't care that I don't have an MAI. Now replace eminent domain with whatever appraising you're interested in and go after it. Mr. Vernon Martin is an inspiration with his awesome international appraising business all without an MAI (last time I checked anyway).

2. The professionalism argument: This one I find insulting actually. Judge my professionalism by my work, my demeanor, etc. not by my acronyms (meaningless or not). Real Estate appraising is regulated. We have licenses with requirements both to receive and maintain said license. This license apparently had very little clout at one time, so much so that in 2008 the requirements to receive it were substantially increased. I think over time the reputation of the license itself will increase, making the designation less necessary. Perhaps the CE requirements should be greatly increased to make them somewhat comparable to the new QE requirements (just brainstorming; this isn't meant as an inflammatory statement). One must remember, that anyone, I mean absolutely ANYONE can appraise a piece of jewelry, or a tractor, or an airplane without breaking a single law or regulation. That's the appraising profession that needs professional designations.

3. Time, Money, and AI: AI is trying to make this easier with the webinars, mentors, and with different ways to get the demonstration report done. Nevertheless, I've heard different things about these changes. The past is a good indicator as one poster stated; however, when appraising an income stream, which the designation must be to be worthwhile, one must use anticipation. The AI has struggled mightily of late and the word is MAI membership is way down. Now, I read since the Candidacy program came online, they have had a huge influx of what amounts to Associate members. My guess is these new members will drop off in a few years and membership will return to where it was prior. Is the AI a viable entity and for how long? It's a legitimate question. If the AI folds, what happens to the MAI and SRA designations?

Conclusion: Right now the MAI, for me, is a part of my long-term business plan, like 10 years. First and foremost is building a clientele and establishing a viable business. I do not plan to spend thousands of dollars and hours right now trying to cram in a designation that I do not need to practice my trade. Down the road maybe but not now.

 

[Rouster]

I understand the OP's position. I'm 35 and a newly minted CG and struggle with this as well. I am currently a Candidate for Designation, but I am ambivalent about actually getting the designation. Here's my two cents for whatever it's worth on the arguments I've heard here and elsewhere:

1. The more work and money argument: There are door that will not open b/c of this designation; that's a given. The other side of the argument though is that there is plenty of work out there. My guess is that what people mean when they say "more business as an MAI" is that more people will cold call/email you for a bid. But appraising is a business built on trust more than anything else. Do good work and network and you won't lack for work MAI or not. Also, as for the 'types' of work, that's really a function of your business. Do you network? Do you take courses and increase your competency? Do you go after that work? The first thing I did once I became a CG was to study up on Eminent Domain appraising (taking courses, taking specialist appraisers out to lunch (who BTW weren't MAIs), reading books, articles, etc.). I then wooed the Area Appraiser at the DOT office and got on DOT's list. Now I do quite a bit of right of way appraising. It's hard; it's not the same as the work I did with my old boss, but they don't care that I don't have an MAI. Now replace eminent domain with whatever appraising you're interested in and go after it. Mr. Vernon Martin is an inspiration with his awesome international appraising business all without an MAI (last time I checked anyway).

2. The professionalism argument: This one I find insulting actually. Judge my professionalism by my work, my demeanor, etc. not by my acronyms (meaningless or not). Real Estate appraising is regulated. We have licenses with requirements both to receive and maintain said license. This license apparently had very little clout at one time, so much so that in 2008 the requirements to receive it were substantially increased. I think over time the reputation of the license itself will increase, making the designation less necessary. Perhaps the CE requirements should be greatly increased to make them somewhat comparable to the new QE requirements (just brainstorming; this isn't meant as an inflammatory statement). One must remember, that anyone, I mean absolutely ANYONE can appraise a piece of jewelry, or a tractor, or an airplane without breaking a single law or regulation. That's the appraising profession that needs professional designations.

3. Time, Money, and AI: AI is trying to make this easier with the webinars, mentors, and with different ways to get the demonstration report done. Nevertheless, I've heard different things about these changes. The past is a good indicator as one poster stated; however, when appraising an income stream, which the designation must be to be worthwhile, one must use anticipation. The AI has struggled mightily of late and the word is MAI membership is way down. Now, I read since the Candidacy program came online, they have had a huge influx of what amounts to Associate members. My guess is these new members will drop off in a few years and membership will return to where it was prior. Is the AI a viable entity and for how long? It's a legitimate question. If the AI folds, what happens to the MAI and SRA designations?

Conclusion: Right now the MAI, for me, is a part of my long-term business plan, like 10 years. First and foremost is building a clientele and establishing a viable business. I do not plan to spend thousands of dollars and hours right now trying to cram in a designation that I do not need to practice my trade. Down the road maybe but not now.

As far as is it worth it; I know there are lots of hoops you have to go through and it does take some time, but in my opinion the answer has to be yes. If you get your MAI, you will be a better appraiser simply because of the education requirements. The AI courses are on par with anything the society has to offer, plus they are offered in most all major metro areas. They have a large selection of CE courses offered on site in most locations as well as good solid on line courses. Also, lets face it, in the real world many lenders and state legislaters actually believe that the MAI is the only designation offered for commercial appraisers (and act confused when you try to show them otherwise). The AI propoganda machine would have made Gobbels proud. There is a reason that many AMC's ask if you are CG or an MAI; they are not aware that other similar designations exist and coincidentially the department head in many AMC's are MAI's...

But back to the original question as to whether it is worth it; if you get your MAI you will have the opportunity to bid on more appraisals; from more clients, than you would without it and the AI courses are as good as any out there and are better than most....

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

As far as is it worth it; I know there are lots of hoops you have to go through and it does take some time, but in my opinion the answer has to be yes. If you get your MAI, you will be a better appraiser simply because of the education requirements. The AI courses are on par with anything the society has to offer, plus they are offered in most all major metro areas. They have a large selection of CE courses offered on site in most locations as well as good solid on line courses. Also, lets face it, in the real world many lenders and state legislaters actually believe that the MAI is the only designation offered for commercial appraisers (and act confused when you try to show them otherwise). The AI propoganda machine would have made Gobbels proud. There is a reason that many AMC's ask if you are CG or an MAI; they are not aware that other similar designations exist and coincidentially the department head in many AMC's are MAI's...

But back to the original question as to whether it is worth it; if you get your MAI you will have the opportunity to bid on more appraisals; from more clients, than you would without it and the AI courses are as good as any out there and are better than most....

Yikes! Where did that come from? And better yet, what the heck does it mean?

 

[Lost Cause]

Well, I am reading from an engagement letter dated September 2012. The lender is a large bank that has branches in a number of states (they most definately meet the criteria of a federally regulated lender). Fourth item down reads: "The senior appraiser shall be certified as a Real Estate Appraiser in the State of (name of state) as of the effective date of the report. If this is a commercial property, the senior appraiser must hold an MAI or SRA designation with the Appraisal Institute as of the effective date of the report".

That bank is violating both the law and regulations. You wouldn't want to name them, would you?

 

[tsiegel]

1. The more work and money argument: There are door that will not open b/c of this designation; that's a given. The other side of the argument though is that there is plenty of work out there. My guess is that what people mean when they say "more business as an MAI" is that more people will cold call/email you for a bid. But appraising is a business built on trust more than anything else. Do good work and network and you won't lack for work MAI or not. Also, as for the 'types' of work, that's really a function of your business. Do you network? Do you take courses and increase your competency? Do you go after that work? The first thing I did once I became a CG was to study up on Eminent Domain appraising (taking courses, taking specialist appraisers out to lunch (who BTW weren't MAIs), reading books, articles, etc.). I then wooed the Area Appraiser at the DOT office and got on DOT's list. Now I do quite a bit of right of way appraising. It's hard; it's not the same as the work I did with my old boss, but they don't care that I don't have an MAI. Now replace eminent domain with whatever appraising you're interested in and go after it. Mr. Vernon Martin is an inspiration with his awesome international appraising business all without an MAI (last time I checked anyway).

I agree with this completely. I am not seeing any shortage of work. I think of the designation as potentially being a viable step toward world domination. :new_evil: Which is an interest of mine.

2. The professionalism argument: This one I find insulting actually. Judge my professionalism by my work, my demeanor, etc. not by my acronyms (meaningless or not). Real Estate appraising is regulated. We have licenses with requirements both to receive and maintain said license. This license apparently had very little clout at one time, so much so that in 2008 the requirements to receive it were substantially increased. I think over time the reputation of the license itself will increase, making the designation less necessary. Perhaps the CE requirements should be greatly increased to make them somewhat comparable to the new QE requirements (just brainstorming; this isn't meant as an inflammatory statement). One must remember, that anyone, I mean absolutely ANYONE can appraise a piece of jewelry, or a tractor, or an airplane without breaking a single law or regulation. That's the appraising profession that needs professional designations.

Whether I agree with this or not (and I do) is immaterial. If the market (our clients) perceive the MAI designation as carrying with it a superior level of expertise, you and I are not going to be the ones that convince them otherwise. (Business valuation can be done without a license or certification as well. That amazes me)

3. Time, Money, and AI: AI is trying to make this easier with the webinars, mentors, and with different ways to get the demonstration report done. Nevertheless, I've heard different things about these changes. The past is a good indicator as one poster stated; however, when appraising an income stream, which the designation must be to be worthwhile, one must use anticipation. The AI has struggled mightily of late and the word is MAI membership is way down. Now, I read since the Candidacy program came online, they have had a huge influx of what amounts to Associate members. My guess is these new members will drop off in a few years and membership will return to where it was prior. Is the AI a viable entity and for how long? It's a legitimate question. If the AI folds, what happens to the MAI and SRA designations?

Food for thought.

Conclusion: Right now the MAI, for me, is a part of my long-term business plan, like 10 years. First and foremost is building a clientele and establishing a viable business. I do not plan to spend thousands of dollars and hours right now trying to cram in a designation that I do not need to practice my trade. Down the road maybe but not now.

I am thinking more like 4-5 years. I don't need that many classes to get 'er done and the youngest MAI in my state is around 50. That makes for an easy way to stand out in this market.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

Unless one is a total nimrod and totally incompetent, you will be busy now as a CG. The MAI won't necessarily bring you more work but certainly different work. Upgrading to the designation should result in an upgrading of the type of work you are solicited for.