Michigan - Site Condo in a PUD

[Don Clark]

In my market they would really be confused. We have very large PUD's that contain many types of properties. The original concept of a PUD was to have many types of properties, residential, commercial, recreational, and religious and other property types. Many of our larger PUD's have single family, condominium, and apartments as well as other than residential properties. Usually, for such a PUD there will be a fee for the Condo development, and an additional PUD fee to cover the PUD the condo is in.

One of the largest PUD's in existence today, built that way from the ground up is the entire city of Reston, Virginia. I stayed there at a hotel and attended a TAF conference in 1998. You can walk everywhere and never encounter an automobile in the city complex.

Lenders have to be educated that there are many types of PUD's, some by zoning and some by Fannie Mae guidelines. Appraisers have to think outside the box as well.

We have several condo developments that have both low rise condo's and single family detached site built condo's all in the same development.

 

[Kim Whiting]

Streetlinks terminated a good fellow appraiser over this issue. He did it on a 1004......was told to do it on a 1073......he balked and a streetlinks advocate agreed with him to keep it on a 1004.....didnt matter to streetlinks....they canned him anyway. Thanks Tony! I'm waiting (6 days now) from another AMC to tell me how to do a manufactured site condo (what form?).....laughable....huh...do I do it on a manufactured form (reasonable) or a 1073 which would create the most misleading report known to mankind? Lender doesn't know thus AMC can't tell me....it's all one great freaking joke.

 

[Don Clark]

Streetlinks terminated a good fellow appraiser over this issue. He did it on a 1004......was told to do it on a 1073......he balked and a streetlinks advocate agreed with him to keep it on a 1004.....didnt matter to streetlinks....they canned him anyway. Thanks Tony! I'm waiting (6 days now) from another AMC to tell me how to do a manufactured site condo (what form?).....laughable....huh...do I do it on a manufactured form (reasonable) or a 1073 which would create the most misleading report known to mankind? Lender doesn't know thus AMC can't tell me....it's all one great freaking joke.

A condo is a form of ownership. All condo's according to Fannie Mae guidelines should be done on a condo(1073) form. I have a condo here locally that is in a Manufactured Home Condominium. All "units" are double wide manufactured homes. I have always done them on a condo form. I supplement that with an addenda that list all the MH data that would otherwise be on a form. The cost approach, due to the fact that it is a condo unit, is not necessary for such a property because the interest in the common areas is not divisible by unit.

You are mistaking a properties archetectural style for what form to use. A property and it's appraisal are based, for secondary ,market purposes, on it's legal definition, not it's archetectural stle. It's legal definition dictates, for GSE purposes, the form to use.

I just completed an appraisal of a Cape COD style property that was marketed as a single family. However, it is zoned Duplex, has 2 gas meters and 2 electric meters and 2 kitchens. It is in fact a duplex and it was put on a 1025 2-4 family form.

There should not be any confusion by an appraiser over what form to use if you will just follow these simple rules.

BTW, how would putting a Manufactured Home Condo on a condo form be misleading? Please tell me. I will wait breathlessly for your answer

 

[timd354]

In my market they would really be confused. We have very large PUD's that contain many types of properties. The original concept of a PUD was to have many types of properties, residential, commercial, recreational, and religious and other property types. Many of our larger PUD's have single family, condominium, and apartments as well as other than residential properties. Usually, for such a PUD there will be a fee for the Condo development, and an additional PUD fee to cover the PUD the condo is in.

One of the largest PUD's in existence today, built that way from the ground up is the entire city of Reston, Virginia. I stayed there at a hotel and attended a TAF conference in 1998. You can walk everywhere and never encounter an automobile in the city complex.

Lenders have to be educated that there are many types of PUD's, some by zoning and some by Fannie Mae guidelines. Appraisers have to think outside the box as well.

We have several condo developments that have both low rise condo's and single family detached site built condo's all in the same development.

Reston is a very large PUD, but is not nearly as large as Columbia, Maryland, which has over 30,000 housing units (including several thousand condo units), 100,000+ residents, 10 subservient community associations, a shopping mall, numerous shopping centers, office buildings/office parks, an arts centers along with 23 outdoor pools, 4 indoor pools, 171 tot lots, a sports park, several fitness centers, golf courses, a ice rink, 2,300 acres of open space, 93.5 miles of jogging/biking paths, etc. The HOA has a budget of almost $70 million per year.

It seems very strange to someone who has appraised in both Reston and Columbia that an underwriter would even question whether a condo can also be included in a PUD.....that happens on a regular basis around here and really is not all that tough to figure out.

 

[Don Clark]

Reston is a very large PUD, but is not nearly as large as Columbia, Maryland, which has over 30,000 housing units (including several thousand condo units), 100,000+ residents, 10 subservient community associations, a shopping mall, numerous shopping centers, office buildings/office parks, an arts centers along with 23 outdoor pools, 4 indoor pools, 171 tot lots, a sports park, several fitness centers, golf courses, a ice rink, 2,300 acres of open space, 93.5 miles of jogging/biking paths, etc. The HOA has a budget of almost $70 million per year.

It seems very strange to someone who has appraised in both Reston and Columbia that an underwriter would even question whether a condo can also be included in a PUD.....that happens on a regular basis around here and really is not all that tough to figure out.

I did say one of the largest, not the largest. Did not know that about Columbia, maryland. thanks for the info. Also, I have no idea how doing an appraisal of a condo on a condo form would be misleading regardless of it's archetectural style. Around here we have 10-20 different archetectural styles of condo's.

 

[ctapraser]

Don't you have to have land ownership in a PUD, like you own the dwelling and a small lot together with joint ownership of the open space, condominium you own just the dwelling and joint ownership in the open space, common area? I get the part about the HOA part... but again, I think there need to be land ownership in a PUD?

I know the zoning is NOT a determining factor.

 

[Lee Lansford]

Does the legal description convey the fee simple interest to the LOT underneath the improvements or does it convey the improvements/UNIT with a shared common interest in the land under the entire condo project?

I, too, await the answer to your question.

 

[timd354]

I did say one of the largest, not the largest. Did not know that about Columbia, maryland. thanks for the info. Also, I have no idea how doing an appraisal of a condo on a condo form would be misleading regardless of it's archetectural style. Around here we have 10-20 different archetectural styles of condo's.

Reston is also a very large PUD....I think that the Reston PUD may have somewhere on the order of 55-60,000 residents and it is interesting that both of these huge PUDs are located outside of Washington, DC (although Columbia is slightly close to Baltimore than DC) and both had their beginnings in the 1960s and are located in 2 of the wealthiest counties in the USA (Fairfax County, VA and Howard County, MD) .

Appraising in both areas is very similar and both Reston and Columbia have thousands of condo units that are included within the respective PUDs.

I don't know of any PUDs with more housing units and residents than Columbia, MD, but would be interested in knowing if there are any that are larger anywhere.

 

[MikeinLA]

I have had many cases of particular lenders who want site condos written on 1004 forms where others want them on condo forms. I don't think that this is the hill you should choose to die on. In my opinion, you should do it the way the client wants it. THEN, add a comment which clearly describes the nature of the property for the reader and why you believe it to be a PUD and end with the statement "per the lender, however, the subject is not a PUD".
As long as you clearly communicate everything, I think you'll be fine.

Mike

 

[Lee Lansford]

...


I usually include the definition in the report along with a statement which explains what a site condominium is.

OK, I give up!

What is a "site condo"?

I understand that the subject improvements are free-standing, but, as to the land beneath, is ownership in common or does the owner of the improvements also own the land beneath? If the latter--I've not experienced this with the SFR detached condominiums here in Chicago-land.