M'kay.. You're 21, and your bro. owns a mortgage company..

[Caterina Platt]

I have to say, I agree with all the above wise advise. Regarding the family involvement I would offer the following examples as to why I am ever so thankful I stepped aside.

My father referring to the builder they chose for their recently completed custom dream home. Keep in mind THEY chose him, had dinner with him, thought he hung the moon in the sky.... "That --- overcharged us about $30K from what I can tell. The doors don't hang right, still having problems with the drywall seams being visible from across the street...." I thank the Lord above this guy wasn't my referral.

My sister in regards to the buyer of her new husband's former house on seller financing. "That ---- Realtor just took her commission and ran. This buyer never makes his payments on time, the escrow company is stupid...." Real reason they sold it on seller financing- their asking price was about 15% above market and the selling homeowners are competing with 5 or 6 active builders in the area. Granted, the escrow company is rather stupid. :roll:

My mother regarding the land and doublewide they sold prior to their new dream home.."Your grandmother didn't reseach this land at all. She told us it had a public road. (It did. Just took a day or so of digging thru courthouse records to prove it) They also didn't net nearly what they would have if the DW had been a sitebuilt. (Duh?) They sold their old home quickly, and while the DW was being built, we lived with my grandparents. About 6 weeks of tension and stress. My parents chose the DW over a site built due to cost and the larger size of the DW vs. what they could afford to build. I was only 12, but I vividly remember these conversations. How does my mother recall the situation? "If you're grandparents hadn't been so hard to live with, we would have had time to build a house. We wouldn't have lost so much money and wouldn't have had such a hard time selling this ---- DW."

Funny how things get twisted isn't it. I love my family, don't get me wrong. But I shy away from getting involved in their real estate transactions like running from a poisonous snake. Your's may be different, but just beware.... whenever there is need for a scapegoat on a deal gone bad....

 

[xmrdfghap]

<span style='color:brown'>Jon, the only thing an appraiser has to offer is an unbiased opinion. If that opinion appears to be compromised, it will be assumed by everyone in the business that he is un-ethical. Should you decide to try and be an appraiser, avoid any and all work that would give you the appearance of compromise.....remember, your integrity is your primary asset. If my brother owned a mortgage company in Tulsa, not only would I NOT do work for him, I would consider changing cities to work in. Should he have a question concerning an appraisal, I would consider doing a review, but I would refuse any assignments that originated out of his office. Similarly, I will not do an assignment for a friend, family, or in my neighborhood. There is far too much work available to be put in a position of having someone ask, in court, under oath, if I "was influenced by the fact that the house was owned by a bad/good/trashy/Muslim/Pagan/ethnic/_______ (fill in the adjective yourself) neighbor" or if my appraisal was influenced by my desire to help a drinking buddy or family member, or by hitting a certain number wouldn't it influence the value of MY home.

I know lots of GOOD appraisers.........take the ethiclly challenging ones and give it to someone who will not be compromised.</span>

 

[Jonathan Winters]

Thank you all very much for your replies, I've had to rethink some things since I'd posted this subject..

There's a place I hope I will be able to stay both comfortable with myself, in my work ethic, and in relation to my bro.
There's going to be a converation (a reminder) between us every now and then that MY *** is on the line if I spread my conclusion of value so dramatically that I end up being prosecuted for fraud. He's not heartless, the family we "helped" could end up in a huge hole if the market suddenly took a dive and they still had to support their inflated value.
I'm an honest individual, and there is nothing more on my mind than being trained well to evaluate and arrive at the true value any client's assignment. Nothing. I prefer not to hear the "target range" or any emotional weight attached to the subject until after I've come to my value, to keep an honest man honest.

So as I come to my conclusion of value for the subject, perhaps then I might use the minor loopholes to stretch the value within reasonable boundaries. There is definitely a clear line between what's reasonably adjustable and what's fraud. I'm secure enough to abide by the law before family ties.

Larry Lyke: Why would the appraiser have to state his/her relationship to the broker? Couldn't I just write "client" or another response?

Charlotte: No, his name isn't Edgar, its.. uh.. Elvis..

 

[Larry Lyke]

Jonathan --

It appears you've decided working for your brother is OK, against all the solemn advice above. It seems a better arrangement would be for your brother and you to cross-pollinate with another loan broker and appraisal company.

You guys won't have a leg to stand on in disputes, with anybody: the UWs of this world; the investor who wants out after the loan goes bad (especially once he finds out about the broker-appraiser relationship), and he will find out in discovery. In court, they'll laugh: "Clerk, would you please call that appraiser loser to the stand!"

More specifically, in answer to your direct question to me:

"Why would the appraiser have to state his/her relationship to the broker? Couldn't I just write "client" or another response?"

#1. The appraiser is ethically obligated to disclose his relationship, if any, to any party to the transaction. In your case, the client (loan broker) is not arm's length. Without disclosure, it's assumed to be arm's length.

#2. Writing just "client" would be deceptive. This client is your next of kin (as in sibling), as in (blood brother), as in (big-brother).

Jonathan, it only works in theory!

 

[Neil (Texas)]

Jonathan,

The messages conveyed do not advise against getting into the profession; simply refrain from collaborating with a family member.
The responders to your post have given you the benefit of their wisdom and sage advice. Don't ignore it.

Should you proceed with this "joint venture", we can only surmise that you and your brother have "very deep pockets" and will in the future, make some attorneys very happy.

 

[bobburnitt]

JW,

I predict you will end up hitting your brothers numbers, and if there is any enforcement in your state you will end up in trouble, or you will do it legit and your brother will end up disowning you.

BB in Texas

 

[BarbaraNJ]

Jonathan:

First, it seems from your original post that you can either go into appraising or work with your brother as a broker. If not a broker yet, I doubt that it will take you longer to become a licensed mortgage broker than become an appraiser. Besides, you have a trainee position set for broker, none for appraiser. No lender I know will accept an apprentice appraisal without supervisor/licensed signature, so that goldmine you see will have a licensed appraiser standing at the entrance wanting (and deserving) his/her share.

Second, each and every comment on conflict of interest you have read so far is correct. I have shared this comment before, but you may not have seen it.

I was called by one of my clients (a bank) to order an appraisal. Turns out the applicant is my ex husband. We have been divorced 10+ years, and don't even speak, let alone own anything together. I inform the bank president, since our last names are still the same. The president says he fully trusts me to be impartial. I thank him and call the State Board for an opinion. They advise me NOT TO ACCEPT the order, because there may, SOMEDAY, be a problem and because avoidance of even the INFERENCE of any sort of partiality is paramount.

Finally, the post about doing business with Family is also Excellent advice. No matter how Perfect the family relationships are, there is Always some lingering resentment somewhere. You have been given several examples, but how about this one: If all is going smoothly, your brother is writing mortgatges and you are doing the appraisals and both making $$$$$. You both get married and start families (if not so already) buy houses, have mortgages, car payments, medical coverage, etc. His largest client says one day "Your brother can't do the appraisals, we have hired our own appraisers".
He can (1) say "goodbye" to a six-figure income which supports him and his family and all the payments, or (2) say "goodby" to you.

No matter what his decision, will your parents be happy?? Now, no one in the family is speaking.

Think long and hard.....not to sound like a parent, but you haven't been around long enough to hear all the horror stories life can sometimes deal to you.

BarbaraNJ


_____________________

The Harder I Work, The Luckier I Get

 

[Jonathan Winters]

"young" and "dumb" are synonymous, I know there's much more to life than what I've experienced. The advice being given isn't flowing out my other ear (or, eye, considering I'm READING the advice!)

So considering other possibilities, and especially considering the "relation to broker" issue, would I be better off working through another licensed appraiser and or an AMC, giving them the business in exchange for better pay?

And is there any licensed appraiser in the Orange County/San Bernadino County, CA area who will be accepting a trainee in a few months (Novemberish)?

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Jonathan,

Please excuse me if I'm reading between the lines you last wrote the wrong way but....

If you are now planning on using your brother's business as bait for a certified appraiser to bring you in as a trainee.... you are still walking on shaky ground. Of course, you did mention that you are in California. If any newbie appraiser wannabe came to me with that offer, I'd tell him/her to take a hike. "Oh, by the way Fannie Mae, I have an appraiser trainee in my office who is the brother of the Mortgage Broker this deal is being sold to you from. Do you think I might be swayed by the money that brings in to my business to make the value the Broker brother wants?" Are you still expecting to get the appraisal work that your brother would send to that Appraiser? What if that Appraiser doesn't make the value your brother wants?

Personally, I would absolutely ban any work from your brother coming in to my company if you worked for me and any offer from you to bring your brother's business in to my company in return for hiring you would make me distrust you. I don't know if this is what you are thinking of offering but, no honest Appraiser would agree to it. The impropriety may not actually be there but the implication is.

 

[Jonathan Winters]

Pamela: Thank you for your input. I'm glad I learned that from this forum rather than the hard way. Like I mentioned before about those two synonyms, I'm very inexperienced in some ways.
This is the general purpose I use this forum for, find out as much as I can now before I try the same thing in real life and fail or end up creating a bad situation.
I thought the idea of bringing business to another appraiser through my family would be a positive, unoffending gesture. I'm glad that if it wasn't that I found out now. I'd hate to ruin my reputation before I even begin!
I don't have massive connections, and I didn't live my life bribing people, I grew up border-line white trash. I'm pretty fortunate to have an aspiring brother owning his own company, but that fact shouldn't be a weight of influence.