• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

mold stigma for residential re-sale

Status
Not open for further replies.
From the CDC on mold:

Stachybotrys chartarum (also known by its synonym Stachybotrys atra) is a greenish-black mold. It can grow on material with a high cellulose and low nitrogen content, such as fiberboard, gypsum board, paper, dust, and lint. Growth occurs when there is moisture from water damage, excessive humidity, water leaks, condensation, water infiltration, or flooding. Constant moisture is required for its growth. It is not necessary, however, to determine what type of mold you may have. All molds should be treated the same with respect to potential health risks and removal.

Even the CDC recognizes that moister causes GROWTH. Can we assume that it is the GROWTH that causes concern or should we should contact the CDC for clarification?

I think I understand perfectly, others, maybe not so much. But they are funny.
 
In the original posters scenario the basement has been gutted and remodeled, and the potential future flood hazard mitigated (in his opinion), so all the references to "moist" drywall and cellulose is NOT referencing THIS situation. Very little to no stigma in a "fully mitigated" situation.

Very hard to PROVE, even when one THINKS there is moderate stigma.. I wouldn't go into court simply saying how "scary" mold is in OTHER situation..

Bob in CO
 
Every home does have mold. Mold is a spore that floats in the breeze. Naturally occurring wherever the climate is right for that specific mold. Mold is one of natures most simplistic and persistent occurrences. It was here before us, and will persist probably beyond the cockroaches.

What makes mold? Moisture and substrate to feed. Also known as; Moist drywall.

What types of mold are there and are they dangerous? You're not a mold expert, don't pretend to be. Mold experts have a variety of testing and identification tools. But just rule of thumb; If it's black and blue, I think that's where you get concerned. Or was it green and yellow? HA! You need to rely on mold experts.

If you see black mold, you should vacate and put a mask on. If you see fluffy mold going all 3 dimensional off of the surface, you should vacate and put a mask on. I keep one of those cheapie rubber masks with the orange mold and lead dust face filters. The little replacement pads are about 5 bucks each, or 10 per set. Unless you get actual exposure, the pads stay good for quite some time.

OP: "They've got sump pumps so it's no longer a concern." Oh contrair dear bear, that's not true. Now they have a brand new concern which is routine maintenance of sump pumps for viability and proper operational effect. It's just one of those standard recommendations if a home relies on a sump pump. Pumps needs periodical checking because it's probably just a cheapie off the shelf pump with mechanical parts that are not everlasting. And do they have backup generator power? How quick does the water rise? How frequent do the pumps run? Those are rare a-typical considerations but still keep your eye out.

I had a home once that ran water upward and outward, and after a week of no power, the sump pit was bubbling up and down with water. But water table issues are seasonal and cyclical. In CO, water tables and actual need for sump pumps can vary on a 10 year cycle or longer. There was this news article of how the builder had no idea the water table would get this high, and residents were pumping to the neighbor, who was pumping to the next neighbor. Everyone had a river coming out of their basement and they were just fighting to get water out, with nowhere for it to go. People were using backhoes to dig ditches to try and get it out of that general plains areas. Next year, tables went down, and it's no big deal until the next cyclical run through.

Proper mold remediation involves spraying, chemicals, air drying, material removal, and what not. Once mold is present, it is forever persistent within materials. The chemicals kill a lot of spores but you can't kill all microbial presence. It's true every home has mold. But it's also true that mold typically cannot persist in a dry environment. It goes dormant and dies back to a microbial point like a mini mustard seed.

Valuation method? I've dealt with that many times, and only a few times for very severe conditions, and I think it was easier to valuate because the problem was ongoing requiring repair. I got all sick from entering without a mask, so that's when I looked into the problem into detail. It's probably more difficult to state stigma and what not.

The general industry opinion, as I personally understand it (Consult A Mold Expert First!), is that once mold and moisture are remediated, materials swapped, and coverings applied, the mold is contained. Think of mold hazard as a temporary condition, only applicable when it's alive. Major repair costs, and remediation solution costs and efforts are necessary. Once you've got a handle on moisture and remediation though, it's supposedly dormant and you don't have to worry about it. But you'd better make dang sure your sump pumps work well, so you don't light that mold back up with some moisture condition.

I've seen mold from everything from a forever open window, to dog pee walls in basement, to area flooding, to poor gutter management which seeps into walls. You'll cop moisture issues from drainage, positive water flow, busted pipes, lack of sump pits and pumps, and whatever you can think of. It can be in the attic, the basement, behind walls, you name it. That's why water delivery systems and gutter drain systems are important. Also you probably won't see mold very often. And it's not like go crazy with fear when you see it. It's typically only a major issue in single family detached, when major neglect occurs.

Valuation methods I'd say; rely on the mold experts opinion with specific points regarding itemized remediation methods and an accompanying statement of habitability and safety. For valuation methods, if it's remediated, it's probably not a stigmatized issue. You'll run into stigmatized issues more with attached units where remediation is more difficult. I'm not the expert, but I have struggled with moldy disasters in the past. I've got a picture of a hot tub in a living room somewhere in my work files. Mold everywhere. I'll see if I can think of which file that was and perhaps post a pic later. Was 7years ago though or something.... You're not the mold expert. You must rely on mold experts. It's that simple. Scope of work would include being privy to every single document regarding remediation efforts and costs and habitability statement. Scan it in, assume, disclose, and valuate as normal if it's properly remediated. Pass the buck to the mold inspector. He's the expert on the matter. You just valuate based on assumptions and supplied information.
 
Last edited:
Great thread. I love mold. It's something else to charge out of a front door with neighbors watching and put on that mold mask. HA! I've only seen dangerous mold in actively habitated properties, well, I don't think I've ever seen that. I only run across major mold problems with abandoned or abused properties. If it's dangerous, chances are someone is already in the hospital if it was habitated. You don't ignore mold. Mold persistence is like a constant asthma attack that never goes away.
 
All homes on a crawlspace have some degree of mold under the house. All of the exposed wood starts out looking like little fly poop spots and a light coating of light brown or gray dust that is actually fungi. When the moisture on the wood gets close to 20% the fungi becomes active (20% is the magic number, the reason wood framing is typically labeled KD 20%, Kiln Dried to below 20% moisture). If it stays above 20% the active fungi begins to eat the cellulose in the wood, with an eventual result of "dry rot" when the cellulose structure is basically been completed eaten by the fungi. As far as black mold (Strachybotrys) it is in the air almost everywhere except the artic, and the spores sit dormant until the conditions are right, moisture and a temperature conducive to growth. There are alot of molds that look like Strachy, the only way to tell for sure is under a microscope. Most reputable labs testing for Strachy will take air tests inside and out of the house to establish a base level, as well as "tape pulling" samples, and/or swabbing and putting a sample into a petri dish with a growth medium. The best way to prevent it is to make sure there aren't any leaks and if something gets wet, dry it ASAP. Strachy takes longer than most fungi to start growing, 8-12 days or so, while other species will "flash" activate in under 48 hours when the conditions are right.
 
Since I doubt that anyone here is a mold specialist (although Rex comes close), I would suggest that you don't even call it mold...and that is from the recommendations of mold experts that have taught appraisers how to deal with that blackish substance that appears you found on the wall. I wouldn't go any closer than calling it a "mold like substance". Water stains can mimic mold.

Just describe/disclose what you saw, photograph it and then you have 3 scenarios to chose from:

- If you believe it is a health/safety issue, then check box 3 and make it subject to repair.

- If you're not sure if this could be a health/safety issue, then check box 4 based on a EA that a clear report is the outcome of a required inspection form a specialist.

- If you don't think this is a safety issue, then disclose and check box 1 (as-is).
 
Last edited:
One presumes a mold specialist is already involved.

Otherwise the OP is best to request one. Do you think?

Rex, you really know your stuff with materials. That's very interesting.

Does the flash or quickly developed mold go away as quickly when the moisture conditions are remediated?

I've been told by some when it dries and you swap drywall or spray it down with chemical it's no big deal anymore. Then the next 'mold specialist' wants to run this whole big song and dance with plastic sheets, industrial fans and they go in there fully body suits with sprayers. I mean, what gives?
 
When the moisture gets back below 18% or so it goes dormant. The treatment is to clean the surface mold and then apply a borate based product (Tim-bor is one). It prevents insect damage and wood decay fungi, although it does not prevent all surface fungi, since any organic dust that settles on the wood can serve as a food source for fungi.

When asked, I always recommend curing the moisture problem first, as getting the moisture level below 20% may eliminate the expense of treatment.
 
Local river and lake properties that occasionally sell just as high or higher a couple of years after a flood. A few years ago they flooded twice in one year and again just over a year late. A few houses ere torn down or raised but most were just fixes up (summer cottages & small homes) and the remaining still sell well. Based on the data the stigmas do not last.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top