More AMC and PDC Bull$hit

[J Grant]

What exactly do you mean when you say "less qualified"? WRT 95% of all SFRs in town that would get financed in the GSE pipelines, what do you think "less qualified" actually looks like to these lenders? 16+ years after the HVCC and D-F.

Less qualified, fewer years of experience for one.
And not able to handle an assignment- maybe these inexperienced appraisers could not function at all without an AMC reviwer reviewer telling them what to do (often the reviewer's advice stinks too - read the posts.

Review recent posts here asking for help - the appraiser was completely floored about how to solve a relatively minor problem, and then asking if they should follow the terrible advice put forth by the reviewer. Most of these posts reference an AMC assignment.

 

[J Grant]

Sputnam and G Hatch think it's fine that the AMC low pay system exists and has chased away many well-qualified appraisers from mortgage lending work. They seem to be on speed dial to pop up and defend the system, endlessly repeating inane statements such as the lenders are okay with the nominally sufficient - if they are it is bnefcause they get an extra benefit from it - $ under the table, free of cost service allowing them to close their own panel ordering, or $ profit if the lender decides to open a captive order AMC under an umbrella division.

It would seem that a number of appraisals done over the past two decades, since HVCC ushered in AMC dominance, are sub par, since the GSEs use the poor quality as an excuse to use waivers- (now called value acceptance)

As for the segment of good appraisals done for AMC's, the lenders benefited from experienced appraisers stuck doing AMC work post HVCC; many of this group of appraisers are retiring or in their last years of accepting work.

 

[TerryRohrer]

Sputnam and G Hatch think it's fine that the AMC low pay system exists and has chased away many well-qualified appraisers from mortgage lending work.

Can you point out even one post, by either, where they stated that belief?

 

[Carnivore]

y eveyrbody knows this​

The AMC middleman exists for the client’s convenience, not appraisers benefit​

they are a lot like aTemp employment agencies. If a company need a day worker the temp company sends the day worker over.
In that total fee the temp companu takes their cut and gives the ermainder to Harry the former PDC data collector

 

[J Grant]

y eveyrbody knows this​

The AMC middleman exists for the client’s convenience, not appraisers benefit​

they are a lot like Temp employment agencies. If a company need a day worker the temp company sends the day worker over.

The thing is, since the AMC exists for the client's convenience, the client ( the lender) should pay the AMC for that convenience. But instead, because of the HUD bundleed fee, the lender gets FREE OF COST AMC service, borne by appraisers.

Nobody of sound mind believed that the AMC exists for the appraisers' benefit, and they certainly do not exist to benefit appraisal quality.

The AMC has a right to be a middleman existing for no other reason than profit. However, the AMC should have to operate the way other businesses do, and charge their customer (lenders) for the service, not make their #$ on the backs of the appraiser "vendors" -via the government perk of the HUD bundled fee.

AMC's getting compensated from the bundled fee on the HUD is a form of government welfare for the rich . Deep-pocket lenders getting free-of-cost service , or cash back to them on the backs of poorly paid appraisers, made into "vendors".

 

[Surf Cat]

What do you make of it when the lenders have used these appraisals over many years and continue to engage them via this model?

The AMC's follow the lender's wishes... they stip the appraiser to make the appraisal "good enough".

Have you considered the possibility that - based on their extensive experience with these appraisals at the big box scale - the lenders might think these appraisals are nominally sufficient for their usage despite these issues?

Of course. That said, they're ready to move on to a new valuation model.

As for "more experienced", you know that the most junior appraisers from the pre-HVCC era meltdown have since accrued 16 more years of experience. How much more experience do you think it takes to learn how to appraise these types of homes?

All I can go by is some of the appraisals that I've seen come my way. As well as the questions asked here in the forums. If trained improperly from the onset, licensed appraisers active for many years just carry their bad habits forward.

I don't know what the breakdown is between those appraisers who do perform via AMC engagement vs 100% Direct engagement only, but we can't say AMCs control 90% of the assignments in one breath and then say most of those appraisers are incompetent in the next. That logic disconnect is too big to withstand 5 minutes of serious consideration.

I don't know what the breakdown is either. I'm sure there are many competent appraisers who work for AMC's and cover all the aspects that are needed in an appraisal to formulate a credible opinion of value.

Some states from what I understand the AMC's pay customary and reasonable fees. If they did that across the board, like a Cost Plus, all these threads and complaints wouldn't be taking place.

 

[Carnivore]

I did not say it is fair and just, Right now home services companies are growing. They our one stop shopping for home owners,
Homeowner calls them and they send out a plumber, HVAC etc. Yyou pay the company and the service com[any pays the worker.

 

[George Hatch]

Less qualified, fewer years of experience for one.
And not able to handle an assignment- maybe these inexperienced appraisers could not function at all without an AMC reviwer reviewer telling them what to do (often the reviewer's advice stinks too - read the posts.

Review recent posts here asking for help - the appraiser was completely floored about how to solve a relatively minor problem, and then asking if they should follow the terrible advice put forth by the reviewer. Most of these posts reference an AMC assignment.

Refer to above. The most junior appraisers have 15+ years of experience because we haven't hardly added a significant number of appraisers since then - nobody is training.

And no, most of the questions do not relate to the 95% of the SFR assignments in the GSE and adjacent pipelines.

Besides that, if the claim is true that the AMCs control 90% of the appraisal assignments out there and that by comparison there aren't very many direct engagement assignments then that's going to mean that 90% of the SFR appraisers out there are performing AMC assignments. Even if some of those appraisers are only using those assignments as fill for their direct engagement assignments. So you're still painting all of them with that broad brush, too.

 

[Surf Cat]

I did not say it is fair and just, Right now home services companies are growing. They our one stop shopping for home owners,
Homeowner calls them and they send out a plumber, HVAC etc. Yyou pay the company and the service com[any pays the worker.

I liken your description to Home Warranty companies that newly purchased homeowners get in the first two years of ownership.

What I see and use here in CA, are apps like Thumbtack, where Tradesmen advertise their skill set and bid for jobs then, get reviewed by the homeowners. The Tradesman bank on you using them again and referring them to your friends so they don't have to go through the app and pay the fee.

 

[George Hatch]

The AMC's follow the lender's wishes... they stip the appraiser to make the appraisal "good enough"

And there you have it: "good enough" for those users is apparently "good enough" If it wasn't then they would have been doing differently all along. IRL the lenders have a different measure of SR1/SR2 quality than as measured by appraisers .

Of course. That said, they're ready to move on to a new valuation model.

It's the same valuation model. What's different is the reporting. For the most part you won't even be able to use the additional data in your analysis because none of your comp data is being reported to that same level of detail in the MLS or other data sources being used by the market participants or the appraisers.

All I can go by is some of the appraisals that I've seen come my way. As well as the questions asked here in the forums. If trained improperly from the onset, licensed appraisers active for many years just carry their bad habits forward.

We've discussed that in some detail - lazy/expedient does not prove unqualified or incompetent.

I don't know what the breakdown is either. I'm sure there are many competent appraisers who work for AMC's and cover all the aspects that are needed in an appraisal to formulate a credible opinion of value.

Some states from what I understand the AMC's pay customary and reasonable fees. If they did that across the board, like a Cost Plus, all these threads and complaints wouldn't be taking place.

If that was the case we'd see those differences in the number and origin of those questions and complaints. Right?