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More AMC and PDC Bull

A number of appraisers here do not accept AMC assignments, and some choose to go out of business or work part-time because of it. If that is the only power we have, it's not much of a power, because appraisers are not functioning in a free market environment within the regulated mortgage loan environment, and face a tremendously skewed supply/demand imbalance as well as AMC dominance with lenders due to the AMC able to hide their fees from consumers in the bundeled fee as well as charge usuorous rates becaue of it of a fee split.
I think that you continue to ignore the effects of the lenders being able to pass fees directly to the consumer. I mean, you recognize how it affects AMCs, but you never comment on its effects on appraisal fees, likely because it has been, for the most part, a great benefit to the appraisers.

In the system we have worked under for many years, the lender has little motivation to care much about the appraisers' fees, because they will pass that cost directly to the borrower. Hence, a lender does not really care if the appraisal fee is $400, $450, $500 or whatever, because the lender just collects that directly from the borrower. That is why there is not as much fee shopping with direct engagement. People tend to care less about costs that are born by others. Anyone who has grown kids has seen this - they tend to be far more attentive to food costs after they move out of the house and pay them themselves.

You say you want a "free market" but do you really? What do you think would happen to appraisal fees if the lender was not allowed to "direct bill" the appraisal cost to the borrower and had to pay the appraisal fee out of their own (the lender's) operating budget (as would be the case in a free market)?
 
It would not be that way. Certain items on good faith estimate and truth in lending disclosures are concrete. If fees were separated on good faith estimate and truth in lending disclosures, lender might have to pay the AMC fee directly. It would also create intense competition between AMC companies.

Borrower goes to lender "A" and AMC fee on good faith estimate is $150. Borrower applies with lender "B" and AMC fee on good faith estimate is $50.

AMC might be a fee that lender could not get the borrower to write a check for. Lender would either have to finance it or pay it directly to AMC most likely.

Take like a 1% origination fee. There is certain parameters a lender can pay a 1% origination fee out of. The lender can charge the 1% origination fee but they can only use that money for certain expenses.
 
I think that you continue to ignore the effects of the lenders being able to pass fees directly to the consumer. I mean, you recognize how it affects AMCs, but you never comment on its effects on appraisal fees, likely because it has been, for the most part, a great benefit to the appraisers.

In the system we have worked under for many years, the lender has little motivation to care much about the appraisers' fees, because they will pass that cost directly to the borrower. Hence, a lender does not really care if the appraisal fee is $400, $450, $500 or whatever, because the lender just collects that directly from the borrower. That is why there is not as much fee shopping with direct engagement. People tend to care less about costs that are born by others. Anyone who has grown kids has seen this - they tend to be far more attentive to food costs after they move out of the house and pay them themselves.

You say you want a "free market" but do you really? What do you think would happen to appraisal fees if the lender was not allowed to "direct bill" the appraisal cost to the borrower and had to pay the appraisal fee out of their own (the lender's) operating budget (as would be the case in a free market)?
if you read my posts, I am NOT asking that lenders pay for the appraisal instead of borrowers!
I am askign that the lender pay a cost charge for the AMC service and if the lender can or wants to, the lender can pass that cost charge on to the borrower. That would put the AMC out of the fee split of the appraisal fee compensation model.

It would be free market competition for the AMC, because the lender can choose any AMC they want.

There is no free market competition in lender work with regard to the lender's "direct bill" of the appraisal cost to the borrower, because the borrower should then, in kind, be able to choose any appraiser they want.
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Which I am not advocating for either. I never advocate for the borrower to have the right to choose the appraiser.
If the lender had to pay for the appraisal as a hard cost and not recoup it from the borrower, lenders would try to pay less for appraisals ( if they could), or would simply increase the fee or loan points to borrowers to make up the difference.
If it were that the lender pays for the apprasial and can not recoup it from the borrower, and the lender pay for AMC service and can not recoup it from the borrower, the lenders would drop using AMC's in a heartbeat, or pay at most $25-50 a file ( as long as appraisals are required or investors in loans demand them ). But if some weird law passes making that the case, then why would loan points and other lender fees not face the same condition? In which case loan points would go from $5000 (for example ) to $500 if the lender had to get it from the borrower as a cost and not roll the points into the loan.

Making the what-if examples the topic of conversation, while interesting, does not address the current problem as it exists with AMC usorius fee splits and huge market share advantage of their service, at the same time not disclosed to borrowers upfront at the loan application, and getting covered by borrowers as a service that benefits the lender.
 
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A free market would be appraisers dealing directly with borrowers. Or at the very least, with local brokers. There's a reason that the day after DF created the AMC model, I went from getting $350-$400 orders to large AMC's sending orders for $175. That had nothing to do with the supposed "free market".

It's a weird system because the party that pays for the professional report is not the named "client" on the report. It creates confusion.
 
A free market would be appraisers dealing directly with borrowers. Or at the very least, with local brokers. There's a reason that the day after DF created the AMC model, I went from getting $350-$400 orders to large AMC's sending orders for $175. That had nothing to do with the supposed "free market".

It's a weird system because the party that pays for the professional report is not the named "client" on the report. It creates confusion.
The problem is less the confusion, the problem is it creates an extremely lopsided market wrt supply/demand ( as we all saw happen0

I had the same experience as did virtually any appraiser doing refi mortgage work- the days after the HVCC passed, all my lender clients shifted to an AMC, and the fees from the AMC's for the same work from the same lenders got cut in half. A mere week later. No free market there and no free market since even loan officers at the lender could no longer select the appraiser.
 
A free market would be appraisers dealing directly with homeowners.

It's a weird system because the party that pays for the professional report is not the named "client" on the report. It creates confusion.
Since the appraisal is a risk management tool for the lender, I don't think dealing directly with the borrower is the right answer. If the borrower wants an appraisal to confirm the price, then the borrower should engage their own appraisal.

IMO, it is the fact that the lender is allowed to "direct bill" the borrower that leads to the confusion. As I said before, I have never really understood why that is the case. The appraisal is an operational cost for the lender.
 
No free market there and no free market since even loan officers at the lender could no longer select the appraiser.
Loan officers were not supposed to be picking the appraiser anyway :)
 
Loan officers were not supposed to be picking the appraiser anyway :)
Well they did so for years - but that is not my concern either. The ideal solution, if everybody on cared about appraiser independence, would be a round robin system where if an AMC is used, the AMC is also independent of being beholden to a lender customer - the way it is now, the AMC has to keep their lender customer "happy", ( hitting price/value in appraisals for one - we in the trenches have all mysteriusly have the work cut off if we come in "low" more than a few times...)

Now we have the worst of all worlds. At least when the loan officers picked the appraiser, they did not auction off the order by bid to find the cheapest appraiser to enrich themselves.
 
Ah, the good ole' days - when appraisers were truly respected. By mortgage brokers... :ROFLMAO:
 
Ah, the good ole' days - when appraisers were truly respected. By mortgage brokers... :ROFLMAO:
Not all mortgage brokers were bad and an appraiser could easily ditch one and replace them with another one-

And even the worst mortgage brokers did not make the appraiser compete by low fee as a form of kickback to get work .
 
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