More AMC and PDC Bull

[TerryRohrer]

A number of appraisers here do not accept AMC assignments, and some choose to go out of business or work part-time because of it. If that is the only power we have, it's not much of a power, because appraisers are not functioning in a free market environment within the regulated mortgage loan environment, and face a tremendously skewed supply/demand imbalance as well as AMC dominance with lenders due to the AMC able to hide their fees from consumers in the bundeled fee as well as charge usuorous rates becaue of it of a fee split.

The requirement for a lender to acquire an appraisal is not a free market function, so your continual railing about “free market environments” is characteristically disingenuous. What you are demanding is a deck of cards stacked in your favor to ensure you can make the amount of money you desire, at your pace, on your terms, at the expense of someone else. There is nothing noble in that pursuit, no matter how much joy and self-congratulation you derive from incessant blathering.

 

[gregb]

None of my direct lender clients has ever allowed the loan officer or realtor involved in a sale to have any say in appraiser selection.

 

[DWiley]

And even the worst mortgage brokers did not make the appraiser compete by low fee as a form of kickback to get work .

Now I have to clean my keyboard because you made me laugh so hard. We had multiple MBs who were known to pressure appraisers on fees and then pocket the difference between that the appraiser charged and what the MB told the borrower.

 

[J Grant]

Now I have to clean my keyboard because you made me laugh so hard. We had multiple MBs who were known to pressure appraisers on fees and then pocket the difference between that the appraiser charged and what the MB told the borrower.

well that sucks ! And if it did happen, it was on a limited basis -I can say that when I personally dealt with mortgage brokers, I never had a single one of them pressure me for a lower fee - and I never heard of it happening when I interacted with other appraisers.

What you describe was not prevalent enough in scale to affect appraisal fees. The fact is that most appraisers were able to charge the going rate appraisal fee at the time ( C and R appraisal fees) and did not need to bid against other appraisers to get mortgage broker work (unless it was for a high-value/complex order )

 

[Zoe]

None of my direct lender clients has ever allowed the loan officer or realtor involved in a sale to have any say in appraiser selection.

Yeah, unless VA lets an appraiser bow out for something serious, the appraisal can't be assigned to another appraiser by the lender for a certain amount of time. If lender or borrower are slowing things down, the VA just puts it on hold and it goes right back to the appraiser it was assigned to originally. I don't know the time frame. I want to say like maybe 6 months and then it may need a new appraisal effective date.

If appraiser has emergency and can't take the appraisal then VA will reassign the appraisal.

 

[Zoe]

The thing with mortgage broker's is they would lie on loan documents and would say if you can meet this value, I will send you the appraisal. It is almost impossible feat to accomplish and the appraiser just had to say, I haven't appraised the subject yet.. I can't tell you the appraised value yet.

 

[Zoe]

Mortgage brokers lying on loan documents and lenders commingling of fees on truth in lending disclosures to borrowers is still lying to the borrower.

I have a feeling that lawsuit in California may gain ground and force regulators to separate fees on truth in lending disclosures to borrowers.

It won't be cost plus. It will be AMC fee $X and appraisal fee $X on good faith estimate. Many borrowers apply with many lenders and get a good faith estimate from the ones the lenders they apply with. I think appraisal fee can vary from good faith estimate. I don't think AMC fee would be able to vary from Good Faith Estimate to borrower.

If AMC fee was $50 on good faith estimate, then AMC fee would be $50 regardless.

That is like VA appraisal fees can vary but they have to be approved by lender and Veteran. Like you get a complex assignment and tell lender this is going to take me 2 weeks to complete. I need $X. Lender can approve with approval from veteran.

I will make this point for reference. Many veterans are very rich. They don't care about the appraisal fee but they may care about the AMC fee.

If they have a 7,000 sq ft house on 60 acres, they know the appraisal is going to cost more.

 

[alebrewer]

well that sucks ! And if it did happen, it was on a limited basis -I can say that when I personally dealt with mortgage brokers, I never had a single one of them pressure me for a lower fee - and I never heard of it happening when I interacted with other appraisers.

What you describe was not prevalent enough in scale to affect appraisal fees. The fact is that most appraisers were able to charge the going rate appraisal fee at the time ( C and R appraisal fees) and did not need to bid against other appraisers to get mortgage broker work (unless it was for a high-value/complex order )

Apparently it was prevalent enough in scale to be a significant causal factor in the financial meltdown. Maybe there were no bad actors in Florida?

 

[chad hampton]

I worked for four more ethical mortgage brokers than non-ethical ones. Most were local who relied on repeat business, which meant not putting their friends and family in the homes that were bad deals or they couldn’t afford. Obviously, there were plenty of bad apples out there as well. But I thought the system was preferred then to what it is now. But if you understand the game, you know that improving the appraisal process was never the goal.

I have two mortgage brokers that still send me work directly. I have no idea how they do it nor do I care.

What difference does it make, mortgage brokers at least back then have to pick the appraiser. Now they get to just pick whatever value they want and get a waiver. Does anyone still think getting mortgage brokers out of the game was the goal?

And I never had a mortgage broker ask me to reduce a fee on an appraisal. Every appraiser out there was working for 300 to 350, so there wasn’t much to negotiate. The only time ever was when they had a borrower that was doing multiple loans, often in the same condo complex, so sure, I always gave a discount for that.

 

[J Grant]

Apparently it was prevalent enough in scale to be a significant causal factor in the financial meltdown. Maybe there were no bad actors in Florida?

We are talking about two different things. I was referring to the same thing D Wiley mentioned - Mbrokers pocketing a difference in an appraisal fee-

You are referring to Mbrokers pressuring appraisers for value, which has been covered numerous times and is off topic - though for the record, I am not advocating the return of MB days. I was one of the appraisers who signed the petition against MB or other lender pressure for values wrt appraisers- did you sign it?