More AMC and PDC Bull

[chad hampton]

Apparently it was prevalent enough in scale to be a significant causal factor in the financial meltdown. Maybe there were no bad actors in Florida?

It wasn’t the small town mortgage broker that created no doc loans, 100% plus refi cash, outs, liar loans, etc. It wasn’t the mortgage broker that underwrote the system that allowed out of work individuals to buy five homes.

The people that created that system and permitted that system, for some reason weren’t removed from the process, they were given a bigger role.

That’s how things work in our system

 

[DWiley]

The fact is that most appraisers were able to charge the going rate appraisal fee at the time ( C and R appraisal fees) and did not need to bid against other appraisers to get mortgage broker work (unless it was for a high-value/complex order )

I think you need to decide what it is you want. On the one hand you say you want a free market, yet then you post that appraisers should not have to compete on price, which is a hallmark of a free market. Which is it?

 

[Zoe]

This is what I think will show up in lawsuit for borrower in California. Appraisal fee $1,200. Fee paid to appraiser $200.

It is complex because they have to subpoena records on truth in lending disclosures, but it is not beyond belief a judge would grant that subpoena for records and lender and AMC would have to comply with judge order on appraisal fees.

They would be in contempt of court if they did not comply.

 

[Zoe]

HUD has those records. They could subpoena HUD too for records. They could see if they match.

 

[Zoe]

Artificial intelligence is going to play a roll in appraisal fees to borrowers. HUD collects all the fair housing data too. Don't tell me Artificial intelligence won't play a roll when the data is entered.

 

[alebrewer]

It wasn’t the small town mortgage broker that created no doc loans, 100% plus refi cash, outs, liar loans, etc. It wasn’t the mortgage broker that underwrote the system that allowed out of work individuals to buy five homes.

The people that created that system and permitted that system, for some reason weren’t removed from the process, they were given a bigger role.

That’s how things work in our system

you're not incorrect.

 

[J Grant]

I think you need to decide what it is you want. On the one hand you say you want a free market, yet then you post that appraisers should not have to compete on price, which is a hallmark of a free market. Which is it?

Since the specific topic is Regulated mortgage lending, where due to prohibitions against a borrower or a loan officer selecting an appraiser, it is not possible to have a free market for appraisers - so asking me what I want is a straw argument.

What I want is to remove the huge market share advantage that exists now for the AMC's via the bundled fee, where the AMC does not have to charge a cost to the lender for their AMC service, be scrapped.Or the AMC fee percent is capped since the system has been exploited beyond the normal % management charges talent, usually in 15% range. If a lender wants to pay an AMC more than that cap, they can.

When I reference the free market system, I am doing it to compare the usurious fees AMC's now enjoy at the appraiser's expense under the current system. Can you honestly tell me taht the AMC could charge, and get, $200-$400 per appraisal order if a lender had to pay the cost ?

What do you think a lender would pay if the lender had to pay the cost of AMC services ( as a hypothetical)

I bet an AMC would be hard-pressed to get $75 an order if a lender had to pay for it , and many lenders would not use an AMC and would return to their own panel management.

Whereas appraisers can and do get paid $500-$650 ( avg ) for mortgage res loan work when no AMC is involved, and for residential private order work, and for residential work from attorneys, estate planners, RE agents, or others. And can and do get more $ with litigation/specialized/complex/high value /rural or in areas where geo location sees it occur.

 

[DWiley]

Whereas appraisers can and do get paid $500-$650 ( avg ) for mortgage res loan work when no AMC is involved, and for residential private order work, and for residential work from attorneys, estate planners, RE agents, or others. And can and do get more $ with litigation/specialized/complex/high value /rural or in areas where geo location sees it occur.

How much would those appraiser get paid if the lender could not pass the cost directly to the borrower?

What I hear you saying is that you like the benefit that passing the cost to the borrower provides to the appraiser, especially in a direct engagement scenario, you just don't want AMCs to have the same benefit when they are used, because of how it affects appraisal fees when appraisers have to compete. Trust me, I understand why you feel that way, even if it breaks the irony meter. Most of us are geared to look out for our own self interest.

Comparing mortgage work to litigation work is apples and oranges. I did both for a very long time. I never had a single mortgage-related appraisal report that got anywhere near the scrutiny of a litigation appraisal report.

 

[Carnivore]

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Cool Hand luke and the never ending story

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[J Grant]

How much would those appraiser get paid if the lender could not pass the cost directly to the borrower?

What I hear you saying is that you like the benefit that passing the cost to the borrower provides to the appraiser, especially in a direct engagement scenario, you just don't want AMCs to have the same benefit when they are used, because of how it affects appraisal fees when appraisers have to compete. Trust me, I understand why you feel that way, even if it breaks the irony meter. Most of us are geared to look out for our own self interest.

Comparing mortgage work to litigation work is apples and oranges. I did both for a very long time. I never had a single mortgage-related appraisal report that got anywhere near the scrutiny of a litigation appraisal report.

Who cares how much an appraiser would get paid if the lender could not pass the cost directly to the borrower? The lenders can pass the cost directly on to the borrower

I AM FINE WITH THE LENDER PASSING THE AMC COST ON DIRECTLY TO THE BORROWER !! I am not arguing against that !!

, I want the LENDER TO PASS ON THE AMC COST DIRECTLY TO THE BORROWER AS ITS OWN AMC FEE OR COST ITEM, SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE APPRAISER's fee (not bundeled)

Because that would remove the incentive for the AMC to drive down the appraiser's fee in order that the AMC gets a bigger split of the appraisal fee.