More AMC and PDC Bull

[glenn walker]

Appraisal fees actually peaked in year 2000 at $350 to $400.00 and 26 years later many independents are still collecting those same fees.

The only real increases were during the Covid-19 lockdown period when we say $500 to $800.00 fees being paid but after Covid the fee's began to quickly go back down to the prior fee's and settled in California in the $500.00 to $550.00 range.

Now with the biggest refinance slowdown seen in many years local appraisers are accepting fees as low as $350.00 and even lower on the bids. Hungry appraisers will grab $300.00 orders all day long on easy cookie cutters just to keep the lights turn on.

 

[Carnivore]

A good friend of mine is a attorney All he did was loan closings he had a small staff, What happemed is he could not generate enough revenue as technology got better and title work became easier. He closed his practice and joined in with a large law firm Unfortunately he had to lay offs some of his staff , they were clerks, He kept his paralegal and she went with him. Lenders and AMC's do pressure title services to lower fee's or the go find cheaper services

I see one Mandani fan in the convo I wont say who that is'

 

[Surf Cat]

We want to work by ourselves because we don't work well with others. Enough so that our anti-organizational tendencies becomes a point of pride for many of us.

I don't think that's true. I believe that working by yourself gives one autonomy to do other things they want to do. Not because "I don't work well with others".

For me, it's not anti organization either. It's "unfair competition".

 

[George Hatch]

I've had face time with thousands of appraisers. Entire days interacting with appraisers in instructional and conversational settings. I know what I've seen and heard over the years. Every time we run a poll on this forum about personality types we find an abnormally high percentage of introverts, including a couple of the least common personality types relative to the general population. Perhaps 2% or 3% in the general population but 25% among appraisers. That kind of atypical. Me included - I'm very introverted.

 

[gregb]

We want to work by ourselves because we don't work well with others.

Not necessarily true that we don't work well with others.

 

[JM2187]

I think the lenders could readily do 100% direct engagement if they had no other alternatives.

They could, and then they get to deal with what is never discussed on this forum, how difficult some appraisers are to work with, especially with a national footprint, and limited volume in rural markets. Just getting the reports back when promised in the right format, let alone done properly in terms of USPAP, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/HUD reporting, photo labels, attachments, things like smoke detector comments, gridded listings, appraiser independence and prior service statements, whatever, good luck. Then add in the more complex assignments, fix and flip, multiple values, grids etc. and some appraisers heads are spinning around, "That's illegal, USPAP USPAP!" Ugh.

I've been saying it on this forum for more than 20 years and no one listens. In the real world, fee alone is not a differentiator when it comes to quality and service, and, anyone doing this from my side of the desk knows this. In fact, supposed field experience, licensing, a fancy resume or designations, none of these alone mean anything by themselves. The only way to guarantee quality and service is to have that proven though established relationships. It would be great if simply paying a higher fee meant there would be no problems, but ironically it can actually be the opposite.

A big reason AMC's exist is to herd cats, that's the reality of this whole system, and that's a true value to the lender and ultimately the borrower. Even if you're the best appraiser out there, admit you can most likely easily name half a dozen local appraisers you personally know who you think shouldn't even have a license, yet they are still out there and their qualifications look pretty much the same as the best.

The only way for lenders, if they're going direct, to weed them out is to wait until AFTER they screw the pooch and add those appraisers to some secret "do not use list." With a big footprint, it's a lot easier to rely on a tested AMC panel (and have the AMC scramble and eat the job when bad things happen), getting better service and quality than the headache of going direct, and not having to personally feel that pain.

 

[Carnivore]

I don't think that's true. I believe that working by yourself gives one autonomy to do other things they want to do. Not because "I don't work well with others".

For me, it's not anti organization either. It's "unfair competition".

that is interesting. give me an example of what you think is unfair competition. Some of my competition broke ules and got away with it due toa lax appraisal board I don't mean our board is lax, they often make you take additional CE and suspend yo u and then waive the suspention provided you do the CE. So it cost you money and some time appraising I think thats a good policy,

 

[TerryRohrer]

They could, and then they get to deal with what is never discussed on this forum, how difficult some appraisers are to work with, especially with a national footprint, and limited volume in rural markets. Just getting the reports back when promised in the right format, let alone done properly in terms of USPAP, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/HUD reporting, photo labels, attachments, things like smoke detector comments, gridded listings, appraiser independence and prior service statements, whatever, good luck. Then add in the more complex assignments, fix and flip, multiple values, grids etc. and some appraisers heads are spinning around, "That's illegal, USPAP USPAP!" Ugh.

I've been saying it on this forum for more than 20 years and no one listens. In the real world, fee alone is not a differentiator when it comes to quality and service, and, anyone doing this from my side of the desk knows this. In fact, supposed field experience, licensing, a fancy resume or designations, none of these alone mean anything by themselves. The only way to guarantee quality and service is to have that proven though established relationships. It would be great if simply paying a higher fee meant there would be no problems, but ironically it can actually be the opposite.

A big reason AMC's exist is to herd cats, that's the reality of this whole system, and that's a true value to the lender and ultimately the borrower. Even if you're the best appraiser out there, admit you can most likely easily name half a dozen local appraisers you personally know who you think shouldn't even have a license, yet they are still out there and their qualifications look pretty much the same as the best.

The only way for lenders, if they're going direct, to weed them out is to wait until AFTER they screw the pooch and add those appraisers to some secret "do not use list." With a big footprint, it's a lot easier to rely on a tested AMC panel (and have the AMC scramble and eat the job when bad things happen), getting better service and quality than the headache of going direct, and not having to personally feel that pain.

Much of the reason AMCs have to herd cats is that they are entirely focused on their own profitability while completely dismissing the profitability of appraisers. Look no further than the almost universal, 27-page engagement letters that are prevalent throughout that industry. Most of them are automated and redundant, with conflicting provisions, and no one at the AMC can figure out what they meant by half the requirements. Most of the screeching in your childish rant could be resolved by using engagement letters that someone at the AMC read for content and context, but you know and we know that won't happen. Anyone anywhere near more than one or two appraisals understands fully that there is no once size fits all in any aspect. Yet, there you and your brethren are, jamming square pegs in round holes while denigrating those you are screwing blind and whining about how tough your jobs are. Do your job and it will bet easier. But it might take a little time outide the 10-second, computer generated, 27-page engagement letter that proves morons were behind it.

 

[glenn walker]

The only solution is for appraisers to band together and just stop.... slam the brakes collectively Nationwide.

It won't happen though. It'd be like herding cats. Plus, appraisers are pu*sies. They want to take the easy way out and sign a petition or join a union.... which is already proven not to be effective.

You Go First everyone else has your back...lmao )

 

[Zoe]

They could, and then they get to deal with what is never discussed on this forum, how difficult some appraisers are to work with, especially with a national footprint, and limited volume in rural markets. Just getting the reports back when promised in the right format, let alone done properly in terms of USPAP, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/HUD reporting, photo labels, attachments, things like smoke detector comments, gridded listings, appraiser independence and prior service statements, whatever, good luck. Then add in the more complex assignments, fix and flip, multiple values, grids etc. and some appraisers heads are spinning around, "That's illegal, USPAP USPAP!" Ugh.

I've been saying it on this forum for more than 20 years and no one listens. In the real world, fee alone is not a differentiator when it comes to quality and service, and, anyone doing this from my side of the desk knows this. In fact, supposed field experience, licensing, a fancy resume or designations, none of these alone mean anything by themselves. The only way to guarantee quality and service is to have that proven though established relationships. It would be great if simply paying a higher fee meant there would be no problems, but ironically it can actually be the opposite.

A big reason AMC's exist is to herd cats, that's the reality of this whole system, and that's a true value to the lender and ultimately the borrower. Even if you're the best appraiser out there, admit you can most likely easily name half a dozen local appraisers you personally know who you think shouldn't even have a license, yet they are still out there and their qualifications look pretty much the same as the best.

The only way for lenders, if they're going direct, to weed them out is to wait until AFTER they screw the pooch and add those appraisers to some secret "do not use list." With a big footprint, it's a lot easier to rely on a tested AMC panel (and have the AMC scramble and eat the job when bad things happen), getting better service and quality than the headache of going direct, and not having to personally feel that pain.

Your missing the point that separation of fees on truth in lending disclosures would create intense competition between appraisal management companies and the appraisal management company would not be able pursue fastest and cheapest because whatever was on the good faith estimate to the borrower is what pay the appraisal management company would receive from the lender.

There would be no commingling of appraisal and appraisal management company fees. It would be transparent to the borrower and it would create intense competition on AMCs to lower the cost of their service to borrower and the lender.

I won't mention some lenders own part of an appraisal management company which is another conflict of interest to the borrower. The lender gains some kind of kickback if they own part of the AMC.

Does lender benefit from fastest and cheapest with commingling of fees when an appraiser is not even competent to appraise the subject property????