NAIFA email

[J. Hill]

I have only been in this business for the past four years and I must tell you it is not easy trying to figure who to believe.

There are so many different groups who all sound like they have the right answer on how we should proceed in out future.

I belong to NAMA and have been very happy with them their dues are only $ 50.00 dollars a year and you get each new USPAP book that comes out.

Should I join another group? and if so which one?

I am never quite sure in this business if USPAP of the AVMS will get me first.

I know that all of you belong to different groups and think that your group is better then the next and maybe it is but for the people who are fairly new to this business I must say it's hard to figure out which group has the best interest of the appraisers at heart.

Should we all join the teamsters union?

I really don't know but one think is sure and that is until there are a lot more numbers in any of these groups I don't believe any one group will have enough power to get the right people to listen.

Maybe it would be smart to join with some other group that has more power already and would be willing to take us on.

I think from what I read that all of the associations we have now are in trouble because of the membership declines.

What's the answer?

J. Hill

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Find the professional appraisal organizations in your area. Attend their chapter meetings. Get to know the other appraisers at the chapter meetings. Ask questions at the chapter meetings. Soon you will find one that makes you feel "at home" and you have also become acquainted with the members of the other organizations. Stay in touch with as many people as you can that you meet at those meetings. And of course I have to recommend my favorite--NAIFA. But each person needs to choose the one they are comfortable with. And remember each organization is comprised of volunteers, everything is done by volunteers. So become one of the volunteers!

 

[Residential Appraisal Ser]

Steve: As I have explained to you a number of times. The Guild official postion is we do not give out our membership numbers as it defuses the real issues. We could have all 75,000 appraisers as members of the Guild and I would not have an effect on leglislation on a state of Federal level. So numbers of apprasiers in an organization is meaningless.

The important question is not numbers but the ability to be heard on both state and federal issues, such as AVMs, HUD, federal laws that affect all of us. Over the years millions of dollars have been poured down the drain. Why have the organizations not won a fight. 2 reasons.
1. Lip service is paid and no one listens. Why
a. Not enough voter influence
2. Not enough pac moneys to effect change.

What does the Guild have. Both of the above through AFL-CIO.(thats why we were founded.

We have suggested an umbrella organization since out inseption.

On January 1998, I wrote to Bob Sneed EVP and Jack Story President about speaking before your BOD to tell them about the Guild and Why it was formed. On March 18th 1998 I received a letter from Mr. Story with the following answer.
"Your offer to appear before the NAIFA Board of Directors representing an appraisal union now in formation is declined."

"NAIFA meetings are not the proper place fro a membership drive for an outside group or organization of any kind."

To date I have never been asked or spoken before the BOD of NAIFA or any of the the BOD of ASA or AI. to hear what I have to say.

I ask you this. Would that kind of letter been sent to AI or ASA. My prior letter to them stated my purpose of addressing them.

Today, my words and ideas are being used in a call for the organizations to get together under an umbrella. This is the umbrella that we tried to put together 4 years ago.

I submit that 4 years has passed and time has wasted, we are in poorer condition. The NAIFA letter has paraphased their stance.

I also sumit that any consolidation or umbrella organization that takes place can't suceed where it is needed, at the federal level or state level without a strong consumer organization, and AFL-CIO has what is needed to be sucessful.
Lenders intend to get rid of the residential appraiser. With that they will break the back of the appraisal industy as we know it. They will make it part of the lending industry with the profits (fees) going into their pockets.

The Guild with the help of the other professional organizations can stop that. Do I think that the NAIFA, ASA or AI will sacrifice and work for the professional to accomplish what has to be done to save it... Sadly I don't see it after 3 years.

The Guild will continue to try to effect leglislation for the better of the appraisal community. It would be much easier if all of us worked together to effect a united front.

We will meet anyone anyplace to discuss the issues. To date we have been frozen out by the so called big three. AI and ASA wrote a letter to HUD about HUD having unlicensed appraisers on the HUD list in Dec 2001. We, infact worked with HUD in June 2000 on the problem and the apprantice was bared from taking the test after we called it to HUDS attention that fall.

To set the record streight from Mr. Blacks statement. The Guild had 5 of its members work in Washington on both the HUD Questions and the revision of the Handbook.
We were behind HUDS sanctions of Lenders for up charging apprasials in November of 2001 and had worked on this since 1999. My hat is off to the Sec. for his stance.

What we do need is all organizations pulling as one, on issues that face our profession and state and federal levels.

The one accomplishment that the Professional organizations can do, is take back their Foundation.

Yes we will gladly accept a new members.

William Sentner
President
American Guild of Appraisers OPEIU AFL-CIO
RESASINC@aol.com

 

[Fred]

Bill,
Thanks for another spammercial, but all I really want to know is how many members you have. If you wish to remain the mystery organization of nameless and invisible appraiers, that's your business. All I can do is ask. I like the way you say, "the Guild" has a policy not to give a straight answer like it's somebody else. YOU ARE THE GUILD. President for life, right?

We both know the numbers question IS important, which is exactly why you have been avoiding it all these years. It probably takes 600 appraisers' dues just to pay your salariy. And then there's your travel expenses and all these unidentified lobbyists working behind the scenes in every legislative nook and cranny. A sensible person would have to ask themselves how long the AFL-CIO bean-counters are going to let someone run around playing Union President to a non-existent sub-union.

I miss seeing you the chat rooms lately. I love a good honest debate.

 

[Leon Stewart]

Impressive I don't equate less body count with "decline."

But Steven you will have to admit that less body count is equal to the number of Appraisers that will be available to join Appraisal Organizations and also pay dues there and to the state, and you will have to take into consideration there will be less attendance at Continuing Ed Classes, making them less profitable to put on. It was published in several plases several months ago that the number of AVM prepared in 2000 (not 2001) was one million, so you can imagine what 2001 will show. Don't forget that since the Lenders are in control of this process, it's only a matter of time before AVM's will be done totally by non-appraisers, and they will be done on mostly all 1 & 2 Family Residential dwellings with the exception of Urban and problem Properties where the Lender wants an inspection so he can hold someone responsible for quality and condition.

"the ratio of appraiser who can produce work in several "specialties' by today's standards will increase."

The only "Specialties" properties that will remain will be problem properties that are difficult and time consuming to complete where the Appraiser has a low profit margin. Since there will be so little of that work, the lender will be able to pay whatever he wants to pay since there will be such an over abundance of appraisers who will be out of work, and it'll be a buyers market.

"The percentage of valuation done in AVM-type models will increse."

It's already increased, and it will continue to do so, and Appraisers will continue to leave the business in droves because the AVM's will continue to replace the full appraisal.


"What the organizations offer is a chance to participate. "

I doubt if an Appraisal Organizations is programmed to do anything. I've participated in several of them since the early 70's and I haven't seen them do anything meaningful yet. The Lenders are in control of this business, and the Appraisers and their Organizations are just puppets being munipulated for their gain.

Most of the time that I participated in these organizations all they did was have quasi social monthly meeting with some insignificant speaker. All these groups have had the tendency to give Continuing Education Courses, but most of the ones I've attended had very little substance. I once attended a Condemnation Course where the first words out of the instructors mouth was that the Course was an "Overview" Course when everybody attending thought they had paid for a "full" two day Condemnation Course.

 

[Fred]

Leart 3
I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just don't think you nearly have the big picture. The ASB is trying to tell you something when they refer to "valuation services" and "appraisal practice." Anyone whom is trusted by the market for information, analysis and advice is in valuation services. The market does not necessarily care if you have a piece of paper from the state board or their stamp on your forehead. In a looser use of the words, the person who writes and maintains the valuation program for an AVM is an appraiser, licensed or not. You better recognize that. THe market does. And the market will figure out whether you can outperform them or not.

As to the "failures" of organizations - The easiest thing to do, is to hold something up to some standard of perfection (real of fanciful) and then criticize it for "failure." So you had a bad course. I bet I have had even more than you. I find the textbooks to be full or errors too - and the trade magazine articles are even worse. Several recent Q&A's and the current Exposure Draft indicate that the ASB has trouble comprehending their own USPAP, doesn't understand property rights or value definitions either.

Having trashed everything, now where does that get us. And you still left ananswered my two basic questions:
-Did you not get all the courses you needed to get licensed and stay in business ten years ago from organizations?
-What do you un-organized appraiser have to offer the appraisers who belong to organizations? Why do so many folks speak from the presumption that we are obligated to help you, but you are not obligated to help us?

One point I do disagree with is you idea that appraisers will be marginalized to low-profit, non-conforming assignments. Here is an excerpt from an article on an "organization" web site.

"Valuation of the Grand Canyon
Maurice Robinson, CRE – Maurice Robinson & Associates, LLC (Marina del Rey, California) Blaine Chase, CRE – Chase and Company (Littleton, Colorado)

Assignment: To settle a dispute involving the expiration of a long-term contract between the concessionaire Amfac Parks & Resorts and the National Park Service, by determining the value of the concessionaire’s improvements at the Grand Canyon.

Time/Resources/Value: Both CREs, Maurice Robinson and Blaine Chase, spent approximately 1,000 hours each on the 17-month assignment, which took 5 months longer than expected to complete. The appraisal fees, which were structured on an hourly basis, exceeded $500,000, and involved the use of construction cost estimators, engineers, architects and economists as well. "

By my count, 500k+ for 2,000 hourse is $250/hour and if you don' their CRE designations had something to do with them getting this job...

 

[Leon Stewart]

Steven:

The "Communicator" Magazine has a couple of Articles on this subject, and I got my copy today. Check it out if you get a chance.

I didn't know that the State Appraisal Board had control of a person who prepared a AVM Report. If what you say is true, how can they pull an AVM Preparer's license that they don't have?

I'm not exposed to anyone who is doing AVM's so I don't have solid information on the process, but as far as I know, these Reports will eventually become totally Mechanical using data from Public Records. There is one company currently going around the country trying to get appraisers to take pictures of properties all over the country to be stored in a data bank that will be sold to Users of Appraisers Reports(and others)to allow the user to view a specific property without having to do a physical Inspection.

leart3

 

[Fred]

Leart 3,
Didn't mean to mislead you. When I said the person who sets up the a program is "an appraiser," I meant by function, not necessarily by license. Although, there is one famous appriaser who has an AVM company, Ken Kaiser of the ASB.