No Closet in Bedroom?

[sputnam]

Doesn't have to have a closet to be a bedroom. There may be a market reaction to no bedroom... or... maybe not. That is a question that has to be answered by analyzing sales data.

 

[lls4910]

Florida Statutes:
(b) 1. “Bedroom” means a room that can be used for sleeping and that:
a. For site-built dwellings, has a minimum of 70 square feet of conditioned space;
b. For manufactured homes, is constructed according to the standards of the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development and has a minimum of 50 square feet of floor area;
c. Is located along an exterior wall;
d. Has a closet and a door or an entrance where a door could be reasonably installed;  and
e. Has an emergency means of escape and rescue opening to the outside in accordance with the Florida Building Code.
2. A room may not be considered a bedroom if it is used to access another room except a bathroom or closet.
3. “Bedroom” does not include a hallway, bathroom, kitchen, living room, family room, dining room, den, breakfast nook, pantry, laundry room, sunroom, recreation room, media/video room, or exercise room.

Yes, I know, many homes built in the early 1900s did not have closets. They are grandfathered in.

In my area, a closet doesn't usually effect value. However, there are a few condo developments where 1 bedroom, 1 bedroom with a den and 2 bedroom units sell at distinct differences.

 

[Overimprovement]

Florida Statutes:
(b) 1. “Bedroom” means a room that can be used for sleeping and that:
a. For site-built dwellings, has a minimum of 70 square feet of conditioned space;
b. For manufactured homes, is constructed according to the standards of the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development and has a minimum of 50 square feet of floor area;
c. Is located along an exterior wall;
d. Has a closet and a door or an entrance where a door could be reasonably installed;  and
e. Has an emergency means of escape and rescue opening to the outside in accordance with the Florida Building Code.
2. A room may not be considered a bedroom if it is used to access another room except a bathroom or closet.
3. “Bedroom” does not include a hallway, bathroom, kitchen, living room, family room, dining room, den, breakfast nook, pantry, laundry room, sunroom, recreation room, media/video room, or exercise room.

Yes, I know, many homes built in the early 1900s did not have closets. They are grandfathered in.

In my area, a closet doesn't usually effect value. However, there are a few condo developments where 1 bedroom, 1 bedroom with a den and 2 bedroom units sell at distinct differences.

What is this statute directed toward? RE agents? Appraisal practice? Why are FL statutes defining a bedroom?

 

[lls4910]

What is this statute directed toward? RE agents? Appraisal practice? Why are FL statutes defining a bedroom?

It is Building Code. Also, has to do with water/sewer/septic, and presumably infrastructure.

 

[Overimprovement]

It is Building Code. Also, has to do with water/sewer/septic, and presumably infrastructure.

So I am curious--do agents follow this when listing homes?

Perhaps a more general question, do appraisers report what a statute/building code says, or what the market says? Our adjustments in the SCA are based upon market reaction, not building code. adherence. Probably not an issue with 5 vs 4 or even 4 vs 3, but I imagine this could be a problem in 1 vs 2 or 2 vs 3 scenarios...

 

[Fernando]

So I am curious--do agents follow this when listing homes?

Perhaps a more general question, do appraisers report what a statute/building code says, or what the market says? Our adjustments in the SCA are based upon market reaction, not building code. adherence. Probably not an issue with 5 vs 4 or even 4 vs 3, but I imagine this could be a problem in 1 vs 2 or 2 vs 3 scenarios...

When I have unpermitted work, I consider its condition and how market reacts to it.
Then if lender has policy for unpermitted work, I have to change the adjustments. Fortunately, I still have final reconciliation. That's how it works.

 

[lls4910]

So I am curious--do agents follow this when listing homes?

Perhaps a more general question, do appraisers report what a statute/building code says, or what the market says? Our adjustments in the SCA are based upon market reaction, not building code. adherence. Probably not an issue with 5 vs 4 or even 4 vs 3, but I imagine this could be a problem in 1 vs 2 or 2 vs 3 scenarios...

Many times agents list these as bedrooms. Sometimes remarks will clarify.

It's usually not an issue whether we call it a 2 or 3 bedroom, or whatever. These are common in newer developments and there are usually comps with the same floor plan that has the same room without a closet. We just have to make comments that it is common, the market views it as a 3 bedroom, has the same utility and was listed as a 3 bedroom. Never had a problem.

Impact fees are based, in part, on the number of bedrooms in a dwelling. So, builders learned that 2 bedrooms with a den has lower fees than a 3 bedroom. Infrastructure is based on the number of occupants. 2 bedroom = 4 people, 3 bedroom = 6 people

 

[Surf Cat]

2nd Bedroom has no closet. Getting ready to list an upscale penthouse condo whereas the 2nd bedroom has been converted to 3 walls of attached designer shelving with Built-in Desk is where closet used to be. Will this lessen or increase the value of the condo? Thanks so much, Michelle.View attachment 84533

"the 2nd bedroom has been converted"

The 2nd bedroom could easily be reconverted back to its original configuration. As long as it has proper Ingress and egress.... there shouldn't be a problem. I would just make mention of it in the report if I were doing it.

My main concern for this assignment would be getting 2 bedroom Penthouse sales. If not in the complex, in competing ones.

If there are no recent two bedroom penthouse sales within the complex, I would go back at least 2 years and extract a % of the difference between penthouse & non 2 bedroom penthouse sales that occurred in as close of a time frame as I could. This is "mandatory". I've done Penthouse appraisals where the difference between the penthouse and lower level sales within the complex ranged anywhere from 75k to 200k.

I would do this myself if I were you. You just don't know what you're going to get when the AMC sends out the appraiser. Are you going to get the appraiser who does his/her due diligence or do you get the Skippy? After all...the AMC's MO is to hire the cheapest and fastest, not the most experienced and geographically competent.

And by all means, do not let any PDC's (Property Data Collectors) in your listing! You want the real thing.... a licensed, insured, professional appraiser.

Good luck and congratulations on your listing!

 

[sputnam]

What is this statute directed toward? RE agents? Appraisal practice? Why are FL statutes defining a bedroom?

That FL rule seems to be unique or unusual. No such rule in NC.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

"the 2nd bedroom has been converted"

Domini domini domini - you're a Catholic bedroom now.