No College Degree for Cert Generals or Residential Appraisers

[George Hatch]

I never said competition control is immoral or that appraisers should ignore supply/demand issue. Quite the opposite: I have been telling appraisers for 25 years that they SHOULD limit the number of trainees they add to the pool and that it was foolish and shortsighted to run trainee mills. You've complained about that commentary right in this thread.

My point in a discussion about appraiser qualifications is that it is not the role of the State to limit your competition for you. Maybe appraisers can do what they accuse the AMCs of doing and successfully persuade the govt to intercede into the market on their behalf, but if so then all that does is make the appraisers guilty of the same thing they're accusing the AMCs.

 

[George Hatch]

The tangent shows why non-competent and inexperienced appraisers are hired by clients, perpetuating the problem. These appraisers will never learn how to appraise under the present system. When the UAD 3.6 announcement came out, the board was flooded with questions about software they could buy to do the adjustments and fill out everything- they would have no problem with it picking the comps either. Maybe not their fault, they entered the field when all trust was eroded and it was churn and burn to survive.

"hired by the clients". Again acknowledging the point I have been making all along. The clients control what they will/won't engage, what they will/won't use in their decision making and what they will/won't pay for.

And since you brought it up, I don't recall seeing even one under-5yr appraiser participating in any of the UAD threads. Those threads are full of veterans, so that doesn't support your allegation that appraisers are incapable of learning the program, either. There's more "I don't intend to participate" and "they're not paying us enough to do the extra work" than anything else. Certainly no fretting about being incapable of learning the program.

 

[alebrewer]

We are arguing that the continuity of the ignorance in posts here and reports reviewers see shows several non-college individuals are incapable of learning how to appraise (or some dense folks who managed to pass college, perhaps )

This may be the most blatant statement of bias I've seen in a while. If you're going to make accusations that it's only the non-college individuals who are incapable of appraising - you need to provide evidence. That's not just an opinion - that's an accusation. Please provide a citation.

 

[George Hatch]

I do agree jgrant, we do waste a lot of valuable time arguing **** on here. I just like pointing out all the unethical behavior that’s been occurring mostly over the last 10 to 15 years in this profession.

And I agree there isn’t much that can be done about it unless people are willing to go to extremes and quite frankly very few people in the American public are prepared to do anything like that. This went from a locally controlled profession with local clients a business model that required good customer service, accurate valuations, and a somewhat decent business acumen to control by a handful of national corporations owned by hedge funds and private equity in which churning and burning is the only thing that matters. the end result is predictable.

Most of mortgage lending went from local to regional and national as a direct result of the technology. Not because of unethical motivations. Even the MBs are still out there doing their thing wherever they can find their deals. What's changed for them is that they mostly no longer control the appraisals.

 

[J Grant]

I never said competition control is immoral or that appraisers should ignore supply/demand issue. Quite the opposite: I have been telling appraisers for 25 years that they SHOULD limit the number of trainees they add to the pool and that it was foolish and shortsighted to run trainee mills. You've complained about that commentary right in this thread.

My point in a discussion about appraiser qualifications is that it is not the role of the State to limit your competition for you. Maybe appraisers can do what they accuse the AMCs of doing and successfully persuade the govt to intercede into the market on their behalf, but if so then all that does is make the appraisers guilty of the same thing they're accusing the AMCs.

This is BS that limiting trainees is the answer. At one time, perhaps, but not for the past 15-plus years since the HVCC took hold . The AMCs;s have an abonroaml control over supply and demand, which is what the regulators realized in their initial C and R ruling (which later got hijacked by profiteer influence and the rest is history )
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Who cares, except you, who makes a career about pointing it out, if appraisers are "guilty" of asking the government for the same protections the government enacts for the AMC's? (that aslo benefits the lenders who use them)

Govt intervention is needed because it is a government-regulated side of appraisals, terribly lopsided at the present time, against the appraiser.

Are you paid for each post you make that serves to show appraisers up as hypctes? If not, you should be....

 

[George Hatch]

This may be the most blatant statement of bias I've seen in a while. If you're going to make accusations that it's only the non-college individuals who are incapable of appraising - you need to provide evidence. That's not just an opinion - that's an accusation. Please provide a citation.

A sloppy appraisal doesn't prove uneducated or incompetent. It just proves what the appraiser did or didn't do in that assignment, not what they are capable of doing in that assignment. Not you, but most people in this discussion are scrupulously avoiding this distinction.

 

[alebrewer]

A sloppy appraisal doesn't prove uneducated or incompetent. It just proves what the appraiser did or didn't do in that assignment, not what they are capable of doing in that assignment. Not you, but most people in this discussion are scrupulously avoiding this distinction.

Exactly correct. It has nothing to do with whether one is degreed or not.

 

[George Hatch]

This is BS that limiting trainees is the answer. At one time, perhaps, but not for the past 15-plus years since the HVCC took hold . The AMCs;s have an abonroaml control over supply and demand, which is what the regulators realized in their initial C and R ruling (which later got hijacked by profiteer influence and the rest is history )
" of
Who cares, except you, who makes a career about pointing it out, if appraisers are "guilty" of asking the government for the same protections the government enacts for the AMC's? (that aslo benefits the lenders who use them)

Govt intervention is needed because it is a government-regulated side of appraisals, terribly lopsided at the present time, against the appraiser.

Are you paid for each post you make that serves to show appraisers up as hypctes? If not, you should be....

The excess supply that the AMCs have been exploiting were created in that pre-HVCC era. Just like I said it would. Those supervisors scavenged a lot of future opportunity. If not for the oversupply that those supervisors created the AMCs would have never even gotten the leverage to threaten appraisers with that "if you won't do this then I'll just find someone else who will".

I don't actually care if you ask the govt to give appraisers that which they are incapable of taking for themselves in the market. Your desire to do so doesn't bother me at all. If appraisers were to prevail on the issue then that would suit me just fine. I'd rather see you win than lose.
I just don't think anyone in govt is going to consider "help us ObiWan, you're our only hope" to be a persuasive argument with those decision makers. It hasn't worked yet. I think you're wasting your time/effort with that reasoning. I'd much rather be wrong than right about that outcome and have said so repeatedly in the past. But whether I am right or wrong about any of this, the 2030 outcome will occur anyway.

I do kinda have to laugh at your attempts to tone-police the commentary on the basis that you don't like how it makes you feel. I tell my own clients things they don't want to hear all the time and THEY can't get me to stop, either.

 

[J Grant]

Most of mortgage lending went from local to regional and national as a direct result of the technology. Not because of unethical motivations. Even the MBs are still out there doing their thing wherever they can find their deals. What's changed for them is that they mostly no longer control the appraisals.

The spin of technology excuses.

The HVCC had nothing to do with technology; it was a regulatory decision that shifted a vast market share to the AMC s overnight by prohibiting engagement by a loan officer or mortgage lender to select an appraiser. The unethical motivation came about when the AMC value pressure firewall was a fail and it all became about profiteering, with as much or value pressure as before. This evolves to the Waiver/ value acceptance, which eliminates the appraisal and lets the mortgage lender estimate the property value they need to hit to make the loan work !! How funny is that ? (

(We know the value picked by a lender needs to fall within a GSE range )

 

[J Grant]

The excess supply that the AMCs have been exploiting were created in that pre-HVCC era. Those supervisors scavenged a lot of future opportunity.

I don't actually care if you ask the govt to give appraisers that which they are incapable of taking for themselves in the market. If appraisers were to prevail on the issue then that would suit me just fine. I just don't think anyone in govt is going to consider "help us" to be a persuasive argument. I think you're wasting your time/effort with that reasoning. I'd much rather be wrong than right about that outcome and have said so repeatedly in the past.

You're just too busy trying to tone-police the commentary because you don't like how it makes you feel.

What a load of crap. It is not about how it makes me feel it is becaue it is false.

The HVCC overnight narrowed the demand to a small group of high-volume AMC s and you know it. The fact it might have been a bit better with fewer trainees is dwarfed by that.