No College Degree for Cert Generals or Residential Appraisers

[Surf Cat]

Meaning you have to take all CE and continue to pay the annual licensing fee. If you don't your done and the only way to re-enter is to go back to the beginning and start all over.

Don't forget E&O insurance. You can't suspend your E&O insurance for a lessor fee keeping your priors covered if looking at other avenues for income. In fact, it's more expensive to do so....I've checked.

 

[J Grant]

BUT! BUT! It's just not fair!

I have a Theory that the potential changes Like removing barriers to licensing is because we likely have a lot of Baby Boomer Appraisers are retiring and other younger Appraisers our finding better opportunities in the labor market.

Now I have not looked at SSC numbers. In NC the real estate brokers have an inactive status that cost $40. a year OTOH the NC Appraisal board NCAB does not have an inactive status. Meaning you have to take all CE and continue to pay the annual licensing fee. If you don't your done and the only way to re-enter is to go back to the beginning and start all over.

They would have people breaking down the doors to enter this profession, both with and without degrees, if the AMC fee predation had not usurped a profession that once offered a decent income.

They can drop all requirements and have the lowest entry bar, and still have trouble recruiting.

Who would want to enter a field offering miserable and uneven income, no rewards in the work itself, coupled with tremendous liability? The stakeholders rode on the backs of near-retirement-age, dedicated and experienced appraisers, and now that ride is coming to an end. In a healthy field, we would be steadily replaced by a new generation of the best and brightest. But the greed of the stakeholders prevailed. Based on the screamingly clueless posts asking for help, all starting out with. "I am working on AMC assignment" - they get what they pay for.

 

[glenn walker]

There never has been a requirement to hold a college degree it's 95% of the appraisers including on this forum who never spent the time reading it and or analyzing what the license law and guideline actually says and what available substitutions existed get licensed or for one to upgrade. Now their Punking and diverting that their going to eliminate the college degree which in fact never was required.

THE TRUTH is their planning on killing and eventually ending the licensed as we know and declaring that appraisers are not a profession but a trade like their doing with nursing and that lowers entry and fees and wages which will make appraisers earn similar incomes to lower paid trades or regular unskilled Jobs.

Kinda like the C & R on fees most have never read that part in Dodd Frank and never analyzed why there wasn't any legal enforcement provision that could define even what it was and it violated labor and wage laws and didn't even apply to the self employed or vendors. The Money Center Banks and their attorneys punked the stupid easily emotional appraisers by writing a unenforceable law.

 

[George Hatch]

Your efforts to prop up the GSE talking points do not match reality. Did you not read the AI example of a large firm ( Soliidfi ) ordering 18,000 appraisals a month?

it is not simply dividing 27 firms into some imaginary total. The 27 firms order the lion's share of the volume, and each the 86% of the remaining AM "s have much lower volume. Some have none in an area. My personal estimate, having actually worked for AMC's, is that of the 27 examples, fewer than that have the vast volume in an area, which makes sense, since the national AMC s have contracts with the biggest national banks or online lenders. In some cases, the AMC is owned by a lender as a division.

I already addressed that even if appraisal fees vary by locale, it happens that in any locale, the appraisal fees paid by an AMC are much lower than what a lender pays for the same work when no AMC is used. Market conditions need to be extreme to reach a parity of open market supply and demand, and extreme market conditions are not the norm.

The AMC's need not collude to lower fees. They are smarter than that wrt legal. The fact that the narrow channel of demand gives the AMC tremendous leverage serves to accomplish it. Enabled by the Govt perk of the HUD bundled fee. Which gets a pass from those who scream commie if a working person gets a govt crumb.

Not colluding is not colluding. Even 13% of the total isn't enough to drive the entire market. Same as when appraisers come to the same fees as each other without any collusion.

Nobody is denying the effects of the aggregation of the volume into a smaller number of potential portals. Or the leverage at those portals when it comes to shopping by price. That's how capitalism tends to work. But that doesn't alter the point that not prohibiting an existing activity (like bundled fees) isn't at all the same thing as creating a spiff and handing it (aka "giving" it) over to a certain type of company.

Motorcycle riders used to be free to ride without a helmet. Auto drivers used to be free to drive without a seatbelt. When the govt prohibited those actions that was not a freebie that they gave to the helmet and seatbelt industries. It was a limitation on the previously existing rights of those riders and drivers. The govt didn't "give", it "took", which is how regulation normally works.

 

[glenn walker]

Time to debate the Price or Value or Highest and Best Use because J.G. just wants to be right and like a dog that won't let go of the bone. It's exhausting and a never win like Seperation of Fees and AMCs are embedded in her head.

 

[Carnivore]

Another Clue that they are expecting a potential shortage of Appraisers. Imagine an appraiser sitting at his desk putting together a work file for his assignment. All he needs is the PDR report from Harry the Aluminum Can collector Part time PDR collector.

 

[J Grant]

Not colluding is not colluding. Even 13% of the total isn't enough to drive the entire market. Same as when appraisers come to the same fees as each other without any collusion.

Nobody is denying the effects of the aggregation of the volume into a smaller number of potential portals. Or the leverage at those portals when it comes to shopping by price. That's how capitalism tends to work. But that doesn't alter the point that not prohibiting an existing activity (like bundled fees) isn't at all the same thing as creating a spiff and handing it (aka "giving" it) over to a certain type of company.

Motorcycle riders used to be free to ride without a helmet. Auto drivers used to be free to drive without a seatbelt. When the govt prohibited those actions that was not a freebie that they gave to the helmet and seatbelt industries. It was a limitation on the previously existing rights of those riders and drivers. The govt didn't "give", it "took", which is how regulation normally works.

Disengenuous. Do you deliberately mislead, or simply not comprehend? 13% of AMC;s HAVE THE MOST VOLUME. The 13% of AMC's might have 80% of the volume (for example )

The highly regulated res appraisal market is NOT open market capitalism!! On what other realm in an open market is the customer prohibited from ordering a product or service, as happens in res mortgage lending?

The C and R regs were meant to counteract that, but got changed due to regulators being influenced ( $, favors ) to change it.

The result is s "crony capitalism" where a huge govt perk ( the bundled fee allowing lenders to evade paying a cost for the AMC service), instead, the AMC is compensated from a split of the fee paid for the appraisal - thanks to the govt largess to one side ( the stakeholders )

You would be screaming bloody murder if the govt largesse was to the appraisers instead of the stakeholders.

 

[TerryRohrer]

On what other realm in an open market is the customer prohibited from ordering a product or service, as happens in res mortgage lending?

Which customers in the mortgage lending realm are prohibited from ordering appraisals?

 

[George Hatch]

There never has been a requirement to hold a college degree it's 95% of the appraisers including on this forum who never spent the time reading it and or analyzing what the license law and guideline actually says and what available substitutions existed get licensed or for one to upgrade. Now their Punking and diverting that their going to eliminate the college degree which in fact never was required.

THE TRUTH is their planning on killing and eventually ending the licensed as we know and declaring that appraisers are not a profession but a trade like their doing with nursing and that lowers entry and fees and wages which will make appraisers earn similar incomes to lower paid trades or regular unskilled Jobs.

Kinda like the C & R on fees most have never read that part in Dodd Frank and never analyzed why there wasn't any legal enforcement provision that could define even what it was and it violated labor and wage laws and didn't even apply to the self employed or vendors. The Money Center Banks and their attorneys punked the stupid easily emotional appraisers by writing a unenforceable law.

I read a stat that 55% of the appraisers had a college

Disengenuous. Do you deliberately mislead, or simply not comprehend? 13% of AMC;s HAVE THE MOST VOLUME. The 13% of AMC's might have 80% of the volume (for example )

The highly regulated res appraisal market is NOT open market capitalism!! On what other realm in an open market is the customer prohibited from ordering a product or service, as happens in res mortgage lending?

The C and R regs were meant to counteract that, but got changed due to regulators being influenced ( $, favors ) to change it.

The result is s "crony capitalism" where a huge govt perk ( the bundled fee allowing lenders to evade paying a cost for the AMC service), instead, the AMC is compensated from a split of the fee paid for the appraisal - thanks to the govt largess to one side ( the stakeholders )

You would be screaming bloody murder if the govt largesse was to the appraisers instead of the stakeholders.

That last line is some wishful thinking on your part. You WISH that I was anti-appraiser or pro-AMC or whatever because that would enable your Argument to Motive (another logical fallacy) - I'm wrong because of my motivations and not because of the facts. Except that the facts are the facts regardless of anyone's motivations, so even if you were right about me being some shill it still wouldn't alter the facts. .

No matter what, "took from the lenders" doesn't demonstrate "gave to the AMCs", especially when considering that not all the lenders made the same choice. "Not prohibiting an existing practice" doesn't demonstrate "creating new rights/privileges".

 

[J Grant]

Not colluding is not colluding. Even 13% of the total isn't enough to drive the entire market. Same as when appraisers come to the same fees as each other without any collusion.

Nobody is denying the effects of the aggregation of the volume into a smaller number of potential portals. Or the leverage at those portals when it comes to shopping by price. That's how capitalism tends to work. But that doesn't alter the point that not prohibiting an existing activity (like bundled fees) isn't at all the same thing as creating a spiff and handing it (aka "giving" it) over to a certain type of company.

Motorcycle riders used to be free to ride without a helmet. Auto drivers used to be free to drive without a seatbelt. When the govt prohibited those actions that was not a freebie that they gave to the helmet and seatbelt industries. It was a limitation on the previously existing rights of those riders and drivers. The govt didn't "give", it "took", which is how regulation normally works.

Part of the problem is they are not simply shopping by price. Shopping by price is normal consumer behavior, and there are typically unlimited potential consumers for a product or service. Not only is the demand narrowed to a very small channel of AMC s or lenders in res mortgage work, the following also applies.

The AMC is not just shopping by price. The AMC is shopping for PROFIT to themselves from the vendor/appraiser.

It would be like a regular person who shops for a lawn service and compares prices. Typically, the C and R prices for lawn service are similar in an area are in a similar range. But if there was a sudden change of regs and individual homeowners could no longer hire the mowers, and hiring shifts to a small number of companies,, whose profit is tied to how little they could pay. J

I am not aware of any professional service that is subject to the prohibitions around ordering on scale outside of regulated lending appraisals.