No College Degree for Cert Generals or Residential Appraisers

[George Hatch]

You heard wrong. There are a very limited number of AMC's either owned or used by the main lenders and that limited group has the mass of volume. AI just evidenced that fact. "Because they can", as you admit, - which is due to their near monopoly status. But you twist it around to blame the apparisers. The low-resource, isolated appraisers vs billion-dollar $ companies with a government perk of the bundled fee and regulators in their pocket. I wish every appraiser could have held out against it. But appraisers are just people who have to pay bills and are not superpower heroes. Though a number of appraisers did and do resist the AMC low fee model, at great personal cost in some cases.

Fees vary by locale, but even in different locales, AMC's pay a lower fee than direct lenders do in that locale.

Wrt If twenty years ago there had been fewer trainees, it might have helped, but it is a minor factor.

Proof - prior to the HVCC, there was the same SUPPLY of appraisers, and they had no problem getting C and R fees from lenders. Overnight, when the HVCC saw a mass migration to the AMcls the fees got literally cut in half. With the same SUPPLY of apparisers.

Actually, my reference is in a position to actually track those numbers, so I have reason to believe the stats. You can disbelieve if you want, but the fact that appraisers complain about more than a few AMCs should be considered self-explanatory. Even to you.

By the time the HVCC came online we had already built our oversupply (which I had warned of for years prior to it occurring). Nearly doubled the number of licensees between 2001-2007. There's no way a declining level of demand could have resulted in stable fees/volumes after that. That's how the AMCs got leverage in the market for SFR appraisals but not in the CG markets.

Sure, funneling the volume into far fewer points of purchase had the big effect on level of competition at those points of purchase but that would have been inevitable when cutting off the MBs. It was the LENDERS who chose AMCs over direct engagement. The AMCs didn't create that situation, they just exploited it. The AMCs still don't have the leverage to dictate terms to the lenders. And you know it.

 

[Carnivore]

So while AMCs do gather under organizations like REVAA, those meetings aren’t entirely behind closed doors — regulators, watchdogs, and sometimes even antitrust authorities keep tabs to make sure they don’t cross the line into illegal coordination.
-----------------------------------------------------------OK so that does not stop illegal coordination! and here is why.
I imagine they take breaks and I also imagine they give out their business cards which has a phone number direct to the HMIC Head Mother fk 'r in charge. So now I am getting into the realm of conspiracy theory.

 

[George Hatch]

Appraisal fees vary by locale and by market conditions. What does that factoid tell you?
AMCs shop assignments by fee and the lowest fee usually wins. What does that tell you?

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Volumes are down on my side of the business. I'm losing more bids lately than was the case before. I've had to reduce my fees to keep up with my competition. Just because the clients who are outside the mortgage lending loop are operating inefficiently doesn't mean the power users are insensitive to market conditions. And it doesn't make those outside clients indicative of C&R for the majority, either.

 

[Carnivore]

Sure. But and there is always abut. The powers to be have made sure we have more than enough Res Appraisers. We appraisers kind of did it to ourselves having three trainees at a time. Was the short term gain worth it in the long run. It takes very little capital to startup your one trick pony show .

 

[George Hatch]

The point remains, regardless of what our opinions are for how we got here, what comes next? Where do appraisers go from here?

 

[Carnivore]

I have not done this but I am an advocate that Res appraisers should be multi licensed i.e Licensed Home inspector or RE Broker or a Leasing Agent' IOW more than one income stream

 

[J Grant]

Actually, my reference is in a position to actually track those numbers, so I have reason to believe the stats. You can disbelieve if you want, but the fact that appraisers complain about more than a few AMCs should be considered self-explanatory. Even to you.

By the time the HVCC came online we had already built our oversupply (which I had warned of for years prior to it occurring). Nearly doubled the number of licensees between 2001-2007. There's no way a declining level of demand could have resulted in stable fees/volumes after that. That's how the AMCs got leverage in the market for SFR appraisals but not in the CG markets.

Sure, funneling the volume into far fewer points of purchase had the big effect on level of competition at those points of purchase but that would have been inevitable when cutting off the MBs. It was the LENDERS who chose AMCs over direct engagement. The AMCs didn't create that situation, they just exploited it. The AMCs still don't have the leverage to dictate terms to the lenders. And you know it.

D Wiley tries to sell it that there are hundreds of active AMCs ( no monopoly) yet anybody who does AMC work finds that patently false. A very limited number of companies assigns the volume, and the small players might order a dozen at most a year. When I did AMC work, the small companies might order under 6 a year and the limited amount of large companies had hundreds of orders a year , if one bids low enough. ..

 

[J Grant]

Y

I have not done this but I am an advocate that Res appraisers should be multi licensed i.e Licensed Home inspector or RE Broker or a Leasing Agent' IOW more than one income stream

There is a reason most appraisers ( or any RE professional) rarely holsd more than two licenses, though we can have as many different licenses as we want.

 

[Carnivore]

Well I am waiting , Tell me the reasons I know the reasons I just want to hear what you think

 

[J Grant]

By the time the HVCC came online we had already built our oversupply (which I had warned of for years prior to it occurring). Nearly doubled the number of licensees between 2001-2007. There's no way a declining level of demand could have resulted in stable fees/volumes after that. That's how the AMCs got leverage in the market for SFR appraisals but not in the CG markets.

And after 2007 the trainee hiring slowed down. It became a non issue when the HVCC passed.

Explain this : Before the HVCC, the SAME SUPPLY of appraisers had no problem collecting C and R fees from mortgage clients. Immediately after the HVCC the SAME SUPPLY of appraisers saw fees cut in half, then the lenders fled en masse to HVCC. This kills the nonsense that the low AMC fees are due to an oversupply in the past of trainees.

The AMC did not get leverage in the CG markets because commercial lending post does not have the same regulatory bans on who orders the appraisal that Residential mortgage lender work does. The same goes for private residential work, where an owner or RE agent ( or anyone ) is free to order an appraisal. The split of the appraisal fee on the HUD allows a big market share of AMC;s in res lending because it provides a free-of-cost AMC service to the lenders.