No Permit Pulled for GLA Addition

[Terrel L. Shields]

there is no way to determine if the addition is legal or not and it would be incumbant upon the town to prove the addition illegal, not the owner to prove it is legal. I am not the police nor a lawyer

Practicing law without a license are we?

Zoning requires conformance. ...building codes regulate the composition and design of improvements.

Therefore it is impossible, right? Actually, imho. zoning and building codes are made to be broken. That's how poorly paid inspectors can make money. Cross their palms with a little cash and the problem is "fixed"....really. Graft is what makes the world go around and I am convinced that there is no zoning or building code which cannot be bypassed if you know which palm to grease. In my county, our environmental officer got caught for a lousy $800. Do you think she is the only one? Remember when Hurricane andrew exposed the fact that roof decking had less than 50% of the nails they were supposed to have, that hurricane straps were missing, that sheetrock was used in place of plywood on gable ends??? All these were "inspected and approved"...I don't recall any code officers going to jail.

 

[Groover]

I suggest we back up a little. Assuming the appraisal is for market value, we are to assume the buyer and sellers are well informed and know about the non-permitted addition. Highest and best use = Physically possible, legally permissible, financially feasible. So legally permissible includes land use, building permits, set back requirements, rent controls, deed restrictions, and many other legal limitations. With respect to legalities, a law is only as good as its enforcement. If it is unlikely that the building permit issue will be enforced, it will probably not have much bearing on the properties market value. If it is possible that the legal limitation will be enforced then, what will be the cost to cure the issue? This could give an indication as to the market response, but judgment will likely be required in coming to an opinion (between 0 and the cost to cure). If it is known that the issue will certainly be enforced, then the cost to cure will likely be the adjustment necessary to reflect market value; however, there may also be a premium needed for the time and difficulty in executing the remedy. In any respect, there will be some judgment required in obtaining an opinion of value. Sales analysis may or may not provide a credible indication. Appraisals are informed opinions of value and the reasoning necessary to provide a credible opinion of value. The job is impossible if you try to calculate an answer, so call it what it is (opinion and judgement) and stop making the job so difficult.

 

[Mztk1]

Practicing law without a license are we?.

I have neither the authority nor responsibility for enforcing code. Code enforcement rests with the local municipalities.

I am merely saying that if I can find a market reaction for a non-permitted addition by using another house with a non-permitted addition, that is all as an appraiser I need to do.

If I have an addition that appears to have been added prior to code or if the permits have been purged after the addition was complete, it is not up to me to determine the legality. I have neither the responsibility nor authority. I can simply look for value based on a house with a similar addition of a similar vintage.

The difference is, in the former case I have to call the agents and ask, "Were you aware the addition was added without permits?" "Was the buyer and seller aware as well?". But in the latter case I need not go that far.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Illegal is as Illegal Does. It IS or it is NOT......Legal. It exists, verify it, cite it, extract market data to support demand or lack thereof, value "subject to zoning / use compliance". Bill, Collect Fee. Move on.

 

[CANative]

I suggest we back up a little. Assuming the appraisal is for market value, we are to assume the buyer and sellers are well informed and know about the non-permitted addition. Highest and best use = Physically possible, legally permissible, financially feasible. So legally permissible includes land use, building permits, set back requirements, rent controls, deed restrictions, and many other legal limitations. With respect to legalities, a law is only as good as its enforcement. If it is unlikely that the building permit issue will be enforced, it will probably not have much bearing on the properties market value. If it is possible that the legal limitation will be enforced then, what will be the cost to cure the issue? This could give an indication as to the market response, but judgment will likely be required in coming to an opinion (between 0 and the cost to cure). If it is known that the issue will certainly be enforced, then the cost to cure will likely be the adjustment necessary to reflect market value; however, there may also be a premium needed for the time and difficulty in executing the remedy. In any respect, there will be some judgment required in obtaining an opinion of value. Sales analysis may or may not provide a credible indication. Appraisals are informed opinions of value and the reasoning necessary to provide a credible opinion of value. The job is impossible if you try to calculate an answer, so call it what it is (opinion and judgement) and stop making the job so difficult.

Thank you Groover.

"In any respect, there will be some judgement required in obtaining an opinion of value."

This is all I have been trying to say for years on the forum.

 

[Webbed Feet]

I have neither the authority nor responsibility for enforcing code. Code enforcement rests with the local municipalities.

I am merely saying that if I can find a market reaction for a non-permitted addition by using another house with a non-permitted addition, that is all as an appraiser I need to do.

Mr. Klos,

If the O.Poster's SOW is as anticipated ..... make that three sales of SFR houses with non-permitted additions with proof the buyers were informed.

I like the rest of your post!

Webbed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Mr. (Ms?) Groover,

I suggest we back up a little. Assuming the appraisal is for market value, we are to assume the buyer and sellers are well informed and know about the non-permitted addition.

What buyer? What seller? Have you been getting private messages from the original poster the rest of us don't know about? Why should you have to assume or not what the appraisal is for? Yes, this one of many points left wide open by the original poster.

I suggest it should drive all the forum members a little crazy when a real estate appraiser posts, in the "Urgent" section of the forum, and doesn't provide any of the needed information to accurately answer their undefined and wide open problem. Especially when they don't bother to reappear to fill in any of the blanks as they should have in the first place. Gosh, that's sure urgent isn't it?

I refuse to leave this point alone that I keep trying to make to first time and short time real estate appraiser posters to the forum. You guys (and gals) are all real estate appraisers. Many of you now "certified" ones. When some stranger calls you on the phone and asks, "I have some property I need appraised. What do you charge for an appraisal?", is that a question that you can meaningfully answer in an information vacuum? You don't know what type of property, you don't know what the intended use is or who the intended users are, you have no idea of anything you need to know to properly determine the problem and develop a SOW. How in the world do you quote a fee? So you of all people should glaringly know when specific complex questions regarding appraisal procedures cannot be answered due to the lack of information.

Yet so many of you, professional real estate appraisers, come here and ask "urgent" questions of other real estate appraisers and don't provide any of the required information so that your questions can be answered with meaning. It has to be pointed out to you what is needed in order to accurately answer the question.

So this leaves me with a couple of questions. How do you people function day to day in your chosen profession? If you have no idea of the information you need to provide to forum members, in order to get quality answers back, how in the ding dong do any of you ever understand how to determine a SOW with anyone that ever contacts you about doing your jobs?

I guess I am a "Simon," in that I personally expect the bar to be raised when dealing with other real estate appraisers. As one professional to another, one would think, if the situation was really remotely urgent, that any pro would have thought to provide the needed background so it could be applied to the question(s).

Webbed.