Oil Heat - an item of functional obsolescence

[The Dog]

Tell me more!
A friend of mine who has an OLD oil FWA system was told by heater guy that
max efficiency available for oil is around 85%, so do not bother to modify current system.

Monitor heat http://www.monitorheat.com/ runs at 93% efficiency.

 

[Tim Schneider]

The price premium one pays for 90+% vs. 80% is barely recouped over the life of the unit. Lennox makes a 83% oil unit. http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=O23

As a side note, I was in a home today with an indoor corn furnace, and a hopper that had a 1 month capacity. It is plumbed into the forced air system. He said it saves $1,000 compared to the oil FA unit in the home that is now back-up, and completly renewable by local farmers. I like it.

 

[Steer]

it is not unusual to see a home with 2 to 4 heat sources here in Maine. Generally we see some form of oil-fired heating; either forced warm air or hot water baseboard or even in-floor radiant.

Over the years people have added to their systems based on economic reasons. Either coal was cheaper, wood was cheaper, you get the picture.

With oil costs on the rise, we are seeing more pellet stoves and propane monitor systems. Those that can afford a high efficient system 2000 or Brodus hot water system aren't the ones complaining about costs as much.

Trouble with it all is that most lenders in cold climates WILL NOT LEND ON A PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT HAVE A THERMOSTATICALLY CONTROLLED HEAT SOURCE. If they have to reposess the home, they do not want to pay someone to stoke the wood furnace.

So to answer the question, oil heat it is not a functional problem. Hell our entire econony is built around oil. I say open up the barren landscape of Anwar and any other area that will give us an eventual break at the pump.

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

I was stationed at Pease AFB in Portsmouth, NH in the early 60s. Had my first experience with heating oil. Lived in an apartment that had two small oil burning stoves for heat. Each had a 3 gallon tank that had to be filled daily. Besides having to take the tanks down into the cellar to fill them, had to carry them up three flights of stairs, it was stinky and messy.

Out here in the wild, wild west...natural gas Forced Warm Air furnaces are the norm. FWA has replaced *** so that we can be politically correct...LOL! Typically, IN MY MARKET. FWA is the base, we adjust for hot water heat (gas fired boiler) as superior and electric baseboard as inferior due to cost.

Thermostatic control really isn't an issue but central heating system is. We still have a number of homes with the old gravity furnaces too and most of those have an asbestos concern as the pipes are wrapped that way.

Another thing that has changed dramatically during my nearly 30 years of appraising is central air conditioning. It is now considered one of the most desirable features in new homes. Construction techniques and materials have created more air tight homes. More homes are built with smaller multi-level living areas that get really hot in the summer thus requiring cooling. When I grew up, here in Colorado Springs, very few homes were air conditioned. We just opened the doors and windows. Now, everyone locks up their houses for security reasons. We have gone from a sleepy little community of 40,000 to a metro area of more than 500,000 creating a climate change.

So, let me ask this question. Do you, as an appraiser, consider buyer preferences when it comes to heating and cooling? Do you know the differences and the costs associated with them. This would make a really good 2 hour CE seminar. Bring in some HVAC experts to discuss the things to look for, costs, and buyer preferences.

I think I will suggest that for our local appraisers group as part of our CE for next year. HVAC experts, plumbing experts, and electrical too. That should take care of three meetings!

 

[c w d]

As a side note, I was in a home today with an indoor corn furnace, and a hopper that had a 1 month capacity. It is plumbed into the forced air system. He said it saves $1,000 compared to the oil FA unit in the home that is now back-up, and completly renewable by local farmers. I like it.

Yes, apparently there is a substantial increase in demand for furnaces that burn wood and wood pellets. Seems the price for wood is going up as well.

 

[Mike Boyd]

The price premium one pays for 90+% vs. 80% is barely recouped over the life of the unit. Lennox makes a 83% oil unit. http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=O23

As a side note, I was in a home today with an indoor corn furnace, and a hopper that had a 1 month capacity. It is plumbed into the forced air system. He said it saves $1,000 compared to the oil FA unit in the home that is now back-up, and completly renewable by local farmers. I like it.

Do you add butter and salt?

 

[Mike Boyd]

Maybe there is a difference between oil and diesel, but newer diesel furnaces are rated much higher than any propane FAU. Heat pumps? The heating engineers I have talked to say they are not effective if the outside temperature is below 28 degrees. That is for air to air heat pumps but it would still be applicable no matter what type of heat pump system you have. And, heat pumps are like an A/C unit running in reverse for heating. All electric. Monitor heaters are good but they are still space heaters and they run on kerosene that creates an odor reminiscent of an airport.

If I were to build a new house, I would use a solar system to heat a boiler for hot water heat and insulate the house to the max. The solar system would also have an electric generating system to further reduce utility costs.

 

[Riick]

I was just thinking ...my in-ground pool has died, and about to have it filled-in.
Any way to use the nice hole in the back yard for a really high-efficiency in-ground
heat-pump system that could replace the standard C/A system we now have?

(Balance of system is a real oddball - gas fired H/W boiler, with what amounts to a radiator
in the air stream, converting it to high-velocity FWA system)

 

[c w d]

I was just thinking ...my in-ground pool has died, and about to have it filled-in.
Any way to use the nice hole in the back yard for a really high-efficiency in-ground
heat-pump system that could replace the standard C/A system we now have?

(Balance of system is a real oddball - gas fired H/W boiler, with what amounts to a radiator
in the air stream, converting it to high-velocity FWA system)

My dad, who has a contractor's background, has told me that ground loop heat pumps are not as efficient as was previously thought. Seems that due to expanding and contracting and the drying of the surrounding soil that the pipe(s) are losing contact with the surrounding soil limiting their ability to dissipate the heat generated by the system. I assume this would affect the system over time. *shrugs*

Perhaps you could turn it into a rain catch and re-utilize the water?

 

[Mike Boyd]

I was just thinking ...my in-ground pool has died, and about to have it filled-in.
Any way to use the nice hole in the back yard for a really high-efficiency in-ground
heat-pump system that could replace the standard C/A system we now have?

(Balance of system is a real oddball - gas fired H/W boiler, with what amounts to a radiator
in the air stream, converting it to high-velocity FWA system)

You would have to maintain the water quality in the old pool and it would also depend on how cold the water gets in the winter. Too cold.....well, I guess it would freeze, anyway. I know that on an air to air heat pump it is not economically efficient to attemp to extract the heat out of air that is colder than 28 degrees. It would work great for cooling, however, and with a side benefit of heating the pool water.