On being on the VA panel as a fee appraiser.

[Digger88]

I agree.

Also this allows the appraiser to utilize the Tidewater Notice if needed. SO MANY appraisers use it wrong and they refuse to change.

Case in point. Just had one this past week in an urban location. List price in the MLS $829,000. Contract price $900,000. No less than (5) model match homes in less than a 1/2 mile radius that all sold within the past 3 months. The sale prices of the sold comparable's? $790,000; $790,000; $795,000; $800,000 and $805,000.

My opinion of value was $810,000. Only $90,000 less than the offer the Buyer submitted.

My POINT being I was able to utilize a Tidewater Notice in advance of even visiting the subject property. The listing agent sent 5 comparable's to the lender. The lender sent them to me.

Guess what? All 5 comparable's the agent sent were LARGER in square footage. One was 429 sf larger, then 387 sf, then 299 sf, then 355 sf and 316 sf. He did not send me a single one of the model matches.............AND HE WAS THE SELLING AGENT ON ONE OF THE MODEL MATCH HOMES!

me too in issuing tidewater before ive even inspected the home. if it then appraises no fuss no muss. i just like to get that 48 hour clock running asap! and just curious are those 300 sf larger homes enough to bridge the 90k gap? something else going on if so. most recent comps by chance?

 

[Tru Red]

me too in issuing tidewater before ive even inspected the home. if it then appraises no fuss no muss. i just like to get that 48 hour clock running asap! and just curious are those 300 sf larger homes enough to bridge the 90k gap? something else going on if so. most recent comps by chance?

No......300 to 400 more SF was worth around $100/sf more so $30K to $40K at best.
Even the lender representative (a large nationwide company we all know) asked me what the REALTOR and Seller were smoking when they priced it and...........was the Buyer alive and breathing when they signed the offer. lol

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

me too in issuing tidewater before ive even inspected the home. if it then appraises no fuss no muss. i just like to get that 48 hour clock running asap! and just curious are those 300 sf larger homes enough to bridge the 90k gap? something else going on if so. most recent comps by chance?

I have been told before by the RLC that I should see the subject property before invoking Tidewater (in case there is more square footage than is apparent, etc.) but when it is in an outlying area that is 45 minutes away, I do not understand why I cannot go ahead and start the process before hand as would make sense when SAR's are saying things like "MLS photo detected" on comparable sales. I work rural areas and sometimes searching radius, miles, etc. will not bring up everything that might be comparable. Here, auction sales do not necessarily mean under market, for example. In addition, I am seeing more and more FSBO's and Zillow sales that are not in MLS. How many times have you come back after running appraisals all day and the perfect comparable closed that day and you don't have a personal photo? Am I going all the way back to take a photo. No, I am not. I did nothing but commercial appraisal for years and the comp photo thing is not ever an issue in that world. The national firms that do tax appeal work use the Costar photos and nobody ever says boo about it. They also use comps in different states for properties like retirement homes, nursing homes, etc. and no one expects the MAI to drive from state to state to take a photo. I agree it would make more sense to declare Tidewater initiative before making the trip, but have been told not to.

 

[Tru Red]

I have been told before by the RLC that I should see the subject property before invoking Tidewater (in case there is more square footage than is apparent, etc.) but when it is in an outlying area that is 45 minutes away, I do not understand why I cannot go ahead and start the process before hand as would make sense when SAR's are saying things like "MLS photo detected" on comparable sales. I work rural areas and sometimes searching radius, miles, etc. will not bring up everything that might be comparable. Here, auction sales do not necessarily mean under market, for example. In addition, I am seeing more and more FSBO's and Zillow sales that are not in MLS. How many times have you come back after running appraisals all day and the perfect comparable closed that day and you don't have a personal photo? Am I going all the way back to take a photo. No, I am not. I did nothing but commercial appraisal for years and the comp photo thing is not ever an issue in that world. The national firms that do tax appeal work use the Costar photos and nobody ever says boo about it. They also use comps in different states for properties like retirement homes, nursing homes, etc. and no one expects the MAI to drive from state to state to take a photo. I agree it would make more sense to declare Tidewater initiative before making the trip, but have been told not to.

Sometimes you do have to see the property before using a Tidewater Notice. I also, did thousands of suburban and rural area appraisals where comps are not easily found prior to a visit. I'm suggesting that in many instances, where it is more than obvious the contract price is higher than the sold comparables suggest, then Tidewater is better served right away (as soon as pssible). Situations vary.....yet some older VA appraisers will only invoke Tidewater at the last minute, after they have driven 50 to 100 miles and wasted their time, the Buyer, the Seller and lenders time as well.

Common sense. It's difficult to teach.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

That would take most of your day inspecting alone. The real fun would start when you got back to office.

No, you need to ask lender what they think is reasonable for that property before you start and put notes in portal.

Got it. The one I am currently working on (the only VA assignment I have ever asked for an increase on), the lender and the Veteran did approve my very small fee increase, but I asked the RLC first referring to the Lender's Handbook and was quickly shot down with a note in the portal from someone who has never been a licensed appraiser and probably has no idea how much research I am having to do on this property. Let's just say it should be a narrative appraisal. I am considering asking one of the senior review appraisers (they have appraisal licenses) at the RLC to approve what the Lender and the Veteran already agreed to. I did not ask for an unreasonable amount but the note the non-senior review appraiser put in the portal said "VA appraisers are not authorized to charge more than $500", which is not even true with regard to 1073, manufactured housing form, duplexes, new construction, etc.

 

[Zoe]

Got it. The one I am currently working on (the only VA assignment I have ever asked for an increase on), the lender and the Veteran did approve my very small fee increase, but I asked the RLC first referring to the Lender's Handbook and was quickly shot down with a note in the portal from someone who has never been a licensed appraiser and probably has no idea how much research I am having to do on this property. Let's just say it should be a narrative appraisal. I am considering asking one of the senior review appraisers (they have appraisal licenses) at the RLC to approve what the Lender and the Veteran already agreed to. I did not ask for an unreasonable amount but the note the non-senior review appraiser put in the portal said "VA appraisers are not authorized to charge more than $500", which is not even true with regard to 1073, manufactured housing form, duplexes, new construction, etc.

The following is direct quote from Atlanta RLC:

"Hello,



The VA realizes that some assignments are more difficult than others and that an appraiser may believe a higher fee should be paid based on an expanded scope of work where more research is required. The VA determines standard fees for a typical assignment in geographic areas based on market surveys conducted and an aggregate average is used that would be considered fair for both the fee appraiser as well as the veteran. Just as the VA would not require the fee appraiser to take a reduced fee for quick simple reports, the same would hold true for the more demanding reports.



VA cannot authorize a fee increase, but the lender and veteran can, mutually agree to it; if you both so choose. With that said; the veteran can only pay the published fee, which is $ for a stick built or modular home.



The following is from the VA Lender’s Handbook, chapter 10, (effective 06/09/19) item 10.24h: (complex properties):



h. Complex Properties VA fee and timeliness schedules cover fees for typical appraisals. Appraisal assignments that are complex in nature may require additional resources and time. If an assignment is determined to be complex in nature, appraisers may negotiate additional fees with the lender, subject to VA approval. Fee should not exceed what is reasonable and customary for a similar complex property type in the market area.



All of this is outside of VA; therefore, our policy is that we won’t “approve” it, but we have no issue with any additional fee that is agreed upon by all 3 parties; the appraiser, lender and veteran. We do suggest that the appraiser get the mutually agreeable fee increase in writing and that he/she break-down the fee(s) on the invoice."

What that means to me personally, is the veteran cannot be forced to pay the increase unless they want to. The lender or broker or somebody else has to pay the fee increase. I could be wrong there.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

The following is direct quote from Atlanta RLC:

"Hello,



The VA realizes that some assignments are more difficult than others and that an appraiser may believe a higher fee should be paid based on an expanded scope of work where more research is required. The VA determines standard fees for a typical assignment in geographic areas based on market surveys conducted and an aggregate average is used that would be considered fair for both the fee appraiser as well as the veteran. Just as the VA would not require the fee appraiser to take a reduced fee for quick simple reports, the same would hold true for the more demanding reports.



VA cannot authorize a fee increase, but the lender and veteran can, mutually agree to it; if you both so choose. With that said; the veteran can only pay the published fee, which is $ for a stick built or modular home.



The following is from the VA Lender’s Handbook, chapter 10, (effective 06/09/19) item 10.24h: (complex properties):



h. Complex Properties VA fee and timeliness schedules cover fees for typical appraisals. Appraisal assignments that are complex in nature may require additional resources and time. If an assignment is determined to be complex in nature, appraisers may negotiate additional fees with the lender, subject to VA approval. Fee should not exceed what is reasonable and customary for a similar complex property type in the market area.



All of this is outside of VA; therefore, our policy is that we won’t “approve” it, but we have no issue with any additional fee that is agreed upon by all 3 parties; the appraiser, lender and veteran. We do suggest that the appraiser get the mutually agreeable fee increase in writing and that he/she break-down the fee(s) on the invoice."

What that means to me personally, is the veteran cannot be forced to pay the increase unless they want to. The lender or broker or somebody else has to pay the fee increase. I could be wrong there.

Thank you for this. I have seen this before, but could not find in my email or the circulars. After I turned in, with my little fee increase (RLC would not even give me additional time, so it took all weekend), I received an email saying that I had to get it in writing that the Lender would pay the difference, not the Veteran. I had told them that before, but the Veteran had agreed to it. I'm sorry I asked now, which I'm sure was VA's intention. Plus all my assignments for the week are in the "equestrian community", all have tons of acreage. I don't consider those complex because I have comparable sales at least for those. I also saw the best stipulation on a sales contract I have ever seen "black and white cat must remain with the property"

 

[bnmappraisal]

the perfect comparable closed that day and you don't have a personal photo? Am I going all the way back to take a photo. No, I am not. I did nothing but commercial appraisal for years and the comp photo thing is not ever an issue in that world. The national firms that do tax appeal work use the Costar photos and nobody ever says boo about it.

FWIW, there have been TONS of threads regarding taking comp pics
But to your point above, It all comes down to the scope of work you are certifying. For the 1004 form, it literally states "Inspect each of the comparable sales from at least the street"
When you sign the form, you are certifying that ... just saying

 

[DWiley]

How many times have you come back after running appraisals all day and the perfect comparable closed that day and you don't have a personal photo? Am I going all the way back to take a photo. No, I am not. I did nothing but commercial appraisal for years and the comp photo thing is not ever an issue in that world. The national firms that do tax appeal work use the Costar photos and nobody ever says boo about it. They also use comps in different states for properties like retirement homes, nursing homes, etc. and no one expects the MAI to drive from state to state to take a photo.

The big difference in the two scenarios (residential vs commercial) is the certifications. Most residential work is done on GSE forms, and the certs in those forms include a a certification that the appraiser has inspected the comps.

As much as photos are discussed, the real issue isn't the photos - it is, did the appraiser do what the appraiser certified or not.

Now, it is apparent from many posts in this forum over the years that there is some subset of appraisers who think it is no big deal to certify (aka swear) that something was done when it was not actually done. But, if one wants to lose all credibility, one of the easiest ways to do that is to go around stating/certifying to things that are untrue.

 

[James Mpls]

I have never declined a VA order, but I receive assignments every month that are re-assigned from other appraisers. I can usually see why despite their excuses for why they can't do them.

Me too. Never declined, but have been re assigned orders from other appraisers and they are always difficult assignments. I just respond with what is a reasonable fee for complexity and SOW, and it is usually accepted by the lender and RLC.