On being on the VA panel as a fee appraiser.

[Ariba]

Yup. Those "homogeneous locations" are where an appraising business can become very successful with the right clients and system to exploit the opportunities during a time of low rates.

So there's really two types of residential appraisers out there, largely based on location - the "bedroom community" specialist and the "complex property" rural/complex multi-mil $ specialist. Where there is overlap in market area is probably where the clients do not offer to pay nearly enough to the latter because they are so used to paying lower fees for the former type of property....

Try staying on point, VA Appraisals. The basic question why does VA not adjust appraisal fees based on inflation? Furthermore, why does VA pay a standard fee in a region no matter what the location, (urban, rural) or value of the property? Why should a VA borrower of a $400,000 house subsidize the borrower of a $1,500, 000 house?

 

[Alsie35]

Try staying on point, VA Appraisals. The basic question why does VA not adjust appraisal fees based on inflation? Furthermore, why does VA pay a standard fee in a region no matter what the location, (urban, rural) or value of the property? Why should a VA borrower of a $400,000 house subsidize the borrower of a $1,500, 000 house?

"Subsidize" ?!? No one is "subsidizing" anyone here - what are you on about with that?

So the VA has chosen to pay per appraisal (you CAN ask for a fee increase based on complexity, though I've never done that so I can't comment). As far as "inflation" - you are talking about the Government here. They are not exactly responsive to market forces, and you just have to hope they eventually adjust the pay scale whenever they do their bureaucratic timetable updating.

For the vast majority of us the VA remains the best client we have because its such a simple assignment system and they pay you more than the "market rate" on the outside. If you have a problem with fees in general then you either need to change your market area to one where assignments are more conforming, or you need to make your appraisal system more efficient.

 

[Zoe]

I would whine to a guy I worked with on a commercial job or two. He would laugh. He would say, "If it was easy, everybody would be doing it". I would laugh.

 

[George Hatch]

Actully I will not. I'm only working a couple more years as an appraiser, then selling a couple of homes I own and semi-retiring. I'm going back to the selling side as a broker again. I wrote two offers that were accepted last year for friends and made in excess of $20K on each one.
I'm done holding my hand out for a $600 appraisal fee that should fetch twice as much.

Sure, what's applicable for someone who intends to survive the next "winter is coming" market conditions will not be applicable to someone who plans to withdraw when this bull run ends. You don't have any use for a long term survival strategy. Meanwhile, all the people who do intend to proceed will be hoping you and thousands of other competitors will withdraw sooner rather than later.

 

[George Hatch]

5-years (2026) with no fee increase since 2017 is equivalent to $350 for an appraisal. Not great.

How about adding to your list: VA lack of transparency and responding to appraiser's emails?

As usual, the considerations we're discussing should ideally include the element of "compared to what?" What market conditions do we anticipate will exist 5 years from now and what will happen to fees when the supply of providers exceeds the demand for services? We saw what happened to fees during the last bust; what would make any fee appraiser assume fees competing with the VA will remain the same during the next bust?

We've all seen what these lenders will do with fees when given the chance to do so.

In 2009 I was telling appraisers that fees in SoCal could decline to the equivalent of $15/hr as a result of the supply and demand, and that their peers would reduce their fees in order to keep their cash flow coming in. I was wrong about the amount of the decline but not by that much.

I think every fee appraiser should give serious consideration to the extent to which these lenders have been scavenging future demand.

 

[Alsie35]

As usual, the considerations we're discussing should ideally include the element of "compared to what?" What market conditions do we anticipate will exist 5 years from now and what will happen to fees when the supply of providers exceeds the demand for services? We saw what happened to fees during the last bust; what would make any fee appraiser assume fees competing with the VA will remain the same during the next bust?

We've all seen what these lenders will do with fees when given the chance to do so.

In 2009 I was telling appraisers that fees in SoCal could decline to the equivalent of $15/hr as a result of the supply and demand, and that their peers would reduce their fees in order to keep their cash flow coming in. I was wrong about the amount of the decline but not by that much.

I think every fee appraiser should give serious consideration to the extent to which these lenders have been scavenging future demand.

Yup. In 2010 I had two clients: the first one (the "Good" one) paid $200 for 2055s and $300 for 1004s (that was WF RVS and you had to be a former WSB in-house appraiser to be on their panel), and one other client (the "Bad" one) who shall remain nameless that paid $100 per 1004. And that was it. A lot of appraisers got out. Some of us stuck it out til the lean times ended. And we are saving like mad 'cause we know the lean times will eventually return ...

 

[Zoe]

Yup. In 2010 I had two clients: the first one (the "Good" one) paid $200 for 2055s and $300 for 1004s (that was WF RVS and you had to be a former WSB in-house appraiser to be on their panel), and one other client (the "Bad" one) who shall remain nameless that paid $100 per 1004. And that was it. A lot of appraisers got out. Some of us stuck it out til the lean times ended. And we are saving like mad 'cause we know the lean times will eventually return ...

Remember real estate agents were going broke too in that era. I got on with fannie in that era. Fannie loaded my wagon. Pay wasn't great but it paid the bills. Some local rea estate agents were rocking with fannie on foreclosures. I mean rocking. Like maybe $300K to $400k with fannie on just foreclosures.

 

[Tru Red]

As far as assignments go, Phoenix has always based them on zip code

That is simply NOT the case in northern California. It has always been the entire county here. I have tried when I started and when I moved. Their response has been you cannot choose zip codes, you either take the entire county or don't.
Not going to argue. It's a fact here.

 

[Zoe]

That is simply NOT the case in northern California. It has always been the entire county here. I have tried when I started and when I moved. Their response has been you cannot choose zip codes, you either take the entire county or don't.
Not going to argue. It's a fact here.

Surely you don't have all complex properties. See, a 1200sf 3BR,2B could be worth tons where you are. I'm telling you try Shelby County in TN or rural areas in TN. East TN is worse in some areas. Okay, how homogeneous is the area where you are doing million dollar homes.???

 

[Alsie35]

Surely you don't have all complex properties. See, a 1200sf 3BR,2B could be worth tons where you are. I'm telling you try Shelby County in TN or rural areas in TN. East TN is worse in some areas.

I have an inkling that Brit appraises somewhere in the Bay Area near the water - maybe Marin County? And there is l-i-t-e-r-a-l-l-y no such thing as a conforming home there. The extremely hilly terrain and views/lack thereof make every single property - even a 1200sf shack - an adventure or sometimes a real nightmare to comp. You couldn't get me to appraise there for any amount of $$$. (Nor live there ... but that's a different story ... )