PDC + Value Acceptance

[George Hatch]

It is a bit deeper than that, as it is manipulated by supply and demand due to regulations and HUD payout of bundled fee services, which enable the AAMCs to control a large volume of work and thus be in an atypical position wrt supply and demand compared to the free market .
The American taxpayers are the ones backing up the mortgages which makes it more layered -

What you're complaining about falls under the category of the first line on that list:

That which isn't prohibited is allowed​

The reason MB-select no longer exists in the GSE pipelines is because it has been prohibited. The reason C&R includes AMC fees is because that effectively has not been prohibited.

Supposedly no one AMC controls more than 5% of the market. Which means they are competing for business with each other and are not, in fact, working in cooperation with each other.

Now personally I have no problem whatsoever with the desire by appraisers for more govt intervention in the market for appraisal services. For govt to force the lenders - against their will - to pay appraisers a minimum wage regardless of the prevailing market conditions. But that additional govt intervention is what it's going to take to give appraisers that which we (all) cannot get for ourselves.

The lenders aren't going to volunteer to pay appraisers (or dictate to their AMC vassals) more for those services than the market conditions will bear.

 

[Mejappz]

It is a bit deeper than that, as it is manipulated by supply and demand due to regulations and HUD payout of bundled fee services, which enable the AAMCs to control a large volume of work and thus be in an atypical position wrt supply and demand compared to the free market .
The American taxpayers are the ones backing up the mortgages which makes it more layered -

As appraisers, we face numerous regulations that limit our work and income. Meanwhile, entities such as AMCs, lenders, the GSEs, HUD, TAF, and the ASC can bypass these rules and avoid accountability. They often violate the laws and regulations that apply to them and then claim ignorance as an excuse. Furthermore, they use your money(and data) to fund their operations and benefit from your losses. This is an unfair and unjust situation that puts you at a disadvantage.

 

[J Grant]

What you're complaining about falls under the category of the first line on that list:

That which isn't prohibited is allowed​

The reason MB-select no longer exists in the GSE pipelines is because it has been prohibited. The reason C&R includes AMC fees is because that effectively has not been prohibited.

Supposedly no one AMC controls more than 5% of the market. Which means they are competing for business with each other and are not, in fact, working in cooperation with each other.

Now personally I have no problem whatsoever with the desire by appraisers for more govt intervention in the market for appraisal services. For govt to force the lenders - against their will - to pay appraisers a minimum wage regardless of the prevailing market conditions. But that additional govt intervention is what it's going to take to give appraisers that which we (all) cannot get for ourselves.

The lenders aren't going to volunteer to pay appraisers (or dictate to their AMC vassals) more for those services than the market conditions will bear.

I never advocated for a minimum wage, I advocated for lenders to pay the AMC the fee for the AMC service which benefits the lender, not the appraiser.

You are correct wrt what is not prohibited, and the "modernization" became a way to monetize for AMC's a lower standard of appraisal since that lower standard is not prohibited. This is fine with me at the tail end of my career, I feel bad for younger appraisers but it is a good lesson in how huge corporate $ buys the regulations, or buys the lack of them, which suits them.

I never heard of any limit or avg of how much of a market an AMC controls, but being that so many appraisers on this board seem to get either all their orders, or a good deal of their orders from AMC's, My estimate is that for mortgage lender GSE work the AMC's have about 80% of the volume.

 

[George Hatch]

I think it's safe to say that at this point it doesn't matter how the lenders account for the split, they're still going to choose the AMC that can deliver the "acceptable" combination at the lowest price. If appraisers want a "no-less-than-$500-fee" then the only way that can happen is via govt intervention. Because aside from that there is no natural floor to appraisal fees.

Go back and read the post at the top of the thread. The appraiser got the assignment as a result of voluntarily submitting the winning bid. The AMC didn't force them to do it and there's no indication that they even bothered to ask the appraiser to do it. The worst you could say about the AMCs conduct in that exchange is that they failed to prevent the appraisers from competing with each other on fee.

 

[chad hampton]

I remember being in college, I don’t remember a data collector degree or any data collector classes I could take. how does one go about becoming a data collector? I assume since there’s no degree requirement, there’s some sort of state license you have to get?

 

[J Grant]

I think it's safe to say that at this point it doesn't matter how the lenders account for the split, they're still going to choose the AMC that can deliver the "acceptable" combination at the lowest price.

If there was no split and lenders had to pay for the AMC service as a hard cost, the way the lender pays for IT or accounting, the use of AMC's would disappear overnight.

Do you understand the concept of not having a split, but that the lenders pays a hard cost for the AMC service the way they pay for other services which benefit them ?

Perhaps a lender could pass that cost on to the borrower, or perhaps not, idk, but it would change the payout to appraisers, it would change how AMC's selects the appraiser, and imo it would change how many lenders might choose to use an AMC.

I realize it is doubtful it would happen, but one never knows. Once in a great while, a wrong is corrected. I might not benefit from it, but I'd like to see it happen.

 

[ucbruin]

If the lender explains to the borrower that the total fee is $450/appraisal....
$400 goes to appraiser and $50 goes to AMC....
Would ths still be considered a split fee...

 

[chad hampton]

At the fees the bottom dwellers are paying, isn’t this more of a hobby?

 

[J Grant]

If the lender explains to the borrower that the total fee is $450/appraisal....
$400 goes to appraiser and $50 goes to AMC....
Would ths still be considered a split fee...

yes.
A split is a split.

 

[ucbruin]

yes.
A split is a split.

If lender direct pays appraiser $400....
And directly pays AMC $50....
Is this a split....