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Picking Comps

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George Hatch explained the situation better than I could. I question the appraisers methodology. I'd be willing to bet that the lender who ordered the appraisal relied upon an AMC which hired a low bid appraiser. The low bid appraiser followed AMC and lender guidelines which resulted in an unreliable appraisal.

I suggest that you contact your lender and demand a proper appraisal from an experienced local appraiser.Should your lender refuse I suggest that you contact a local lender, not a large national lender,who knows the local market and cares about quality.

Well, not sure if they used a AMC (or what that is exactly) but yeah, our first thought when we saw this really low appraisal was that they had to have used someone that isn't local. But turned out that they are. So that alone doesn't explain the discrepancy.

My lender is actually my credit union that I've had all my life, but they are local to the DC area, not real familiar with NC. However, I do believe their mortgages are done through Fannie Mae, so that may be what the issue is.

I do have the option of going through Navy Federal instead so that's an option...if the seller is willing to delay the due diligence that long. Luckily the closing date is not for almost 2 months so we do have plenty of time to go do something else pretty easily.
 
why would u say the price was excellent, excellent for who? if the market is fair, why would an "excellent price surface? wouldn't another buyer be willing to pay more if it was so excellent? maybe excellent is based on your perception and non an unbiased opinion. If this price is excellent, are there back up offers ready to take your place? how many days on market....explain your agent's track record...is it based on all deals, or just the one's she is willing to discuss with you as winners.

tax value has nothing to do with this so if it's a little or a lot high.....inconsequential

appraisers don't kill deals, they inform the bank of their opinion what a house is worth, the bank can do anything they want with that opinion...if u think it's worth more, there is nothing stopping u from paying more or buying the house.

good luck

Hi Norton....well, I literally got my bid in on this house days after it went on the market. I'd been looking for a few months and had a couple other homes I'd considered buying, but were more expensive than this one, but I didn't like them as much. Every other house had something I didn't like....and this house had virtually no negatives for me at all, and yet was also priced less. Around here, sales really drop off after labor day, so we guessed they were trying to get a buyer locked in before then. I put in a bid a fair amount under their asking price PLUS $4K in closing costs, plus the fridge, plus a warranty, plus all the curtains, and even some money to finish fencing the yard. So we really though they'd counter with a higher price, and remove some of those extras, but they didn't. They agreed to it, but wanted a very late closing date, late enough that I had to take the risk of a the interest rates changing before I had to lock them. And a bit more in earnest money since they were agreeing to take it off the market before letting any other buyers see it. I actually WANTED a later closing date, so was more than willing to trade the risk for the good deal I was getting on it. Since we didn't have to go back and forth a whole lot, we had a contract about 4-5 days after it went on the market, maybe less.

So yes, there could very well be backup offers, but since we got our offer in so quickly, they may not have had any chance to have other buyers look at it. They certainly might have gotten higher offers, but it's pretty unlikely most buyers would have agreed to as late a closing date as I did.

Not sure what track record you are looking for on my realtor but in selling, she's had at least one home sold every month in the last year, which is darn good in this economy. She's an accredited buyer's agent, a native to this area, and over 13 years as a full time realtor. She said in 13 years, her ability to get homes at the right price has resulted in only one appraisal in the past that required re-negotiating with the seller...and that one wasn't even half as large as the difference we got with this appraisal. Granted, I have only her word to go on with that but nothing I know of her would give me reason to doubt her.

And yeah, I know tax records don't matter much, I'm just kind of used to pulling them when I research and I'm pretty used to seeing them a certain amount above the sales price, as they were all done the same time for the county unless it's a new home (which is not in my price range).

As for paying the difference, that's simply not financially possible for me, I had to scrimp and save for a few years to get this far. If this deal falls through that alone will mean having to wait until next year to start over again, to save up the approx. $2K it cost me to get this far. If it was only a few thousand difference, that I could handle. But $30K?? That's not money I can just pop up with at a moment's notice.
 
Also, not sure how it generally compares with the appraised market value price right now, but the appraiser did include a cost value and that was at $228K. It's too bad they don't just use the average of the two, I'd be okay then!!
 
3. Whatever the reasoning is for giving so little value to the living space, it has resulted in this appraisal coming out WAY below the market. If the point of how these figures are determined is to come up with an assessment that matches what the home's market value is, it's missing the mark. Heck, just look at the comp he includes from the neighborhood that's a normal sale. He's valuing my 2500 sq ft 4 BR home at only $3K more than the nearby 2178 sq ft 3 BR home sold for. That does not seem off to you???


you did not read what was posted. the adjustment for $/sqft is for the living area only. it does not include lot, rights, etc etc. it is a single line adjustment for that feature only.
 
Just as $/SF doesn't mean much to the appraisal, averaging is also not part of the process. You would not or should not anyway, take 2 good comps and a short sale and compute the average. If that's all I had I'd probably put in the short sale, but explain it shows the very low end, and gets little weight. If they were all similar and had prices of $210, $200, and $185 as a short, $200 - $210 would make sense.

Hope this helps with the comp selection question. I can tell you George Hatch is a long time member here, and has shown himself to be a smart guy that really knows his stuff. :peace:

Thanks, yeah that is more how I would expect a short sale to be handled, but the appraiser put it as the #1 comp and said it was given more weight since it was closest. His adjusted prices came out here (sorry should have included these before):

1. 174750 (4 BR short sale)

2. 192160 (3 BR smaller )

3. 180740 (3 BR smaller)

4. 205540 (4 BR larger)


Just averaging you get $188 so it does seem he adjusted even lower based on the short sale. So replace that short sale with a more typical 4 BR house and it probably would have given a value much more in line with what we'd expect. It's definitely not a case of there not being comparable sales around here, and what's odd is the #4 is over 3 miles away. I'm guessing that was the most recent 4 BR sale, but with others closer in the last 3 months, seems odd to go that far.

So we'll probably at least try to appeal the use of that, based on his own comment that short sales are not driving the market. Most likely though I guess we'll have to see if the seller wants to try getting another appraisal and hope that it goes better the second time around.
 
you did not read what was posted. the adjustment for $/sqft is for the living area only. it does not include lot, rights, etc etc. it is a single line adjustment for that feature only.

Yes I did, you are misreading my reply. I was just saying I'm not going to focus on the low sq ft he gave the living space. I don't think it's comparable to how the market woud see going from a 3 BR to 4 BR home with a larger lot and larger living space, but ultimately, I don't think it's the biggest reason the price of my house came out so low. It's part of it, but the use of a short sale that is well below a typical sales price seems to be the biggest cause. Replace that with a normal 4 BR sale and the appraisal would have come out completely different. And yes, there are plenty of comps in my area to pick from. It's also, as he noted in the report, a very stable market, with prices pretty steady for the last year.
 
Also, not sure how it generally compares with the appraised market value price right now, but the appraiser did include a cost value and that was at $228K. It's too bad they don't just use the average of the two, I'd be okay then!!

If the cost value was such that the average of the two STILL had you below water would you still support averaging the two?

The idea of the appraisal is not to play around with the numbers so your deal can move forward.
 
Not sure what track record you are looking for on my realtor but in selling, she's had at least one home sold every month in the last year, which is darn good in this economy. She's an accredited buyer's agent, a native to this area, and over 13 years as a full time realtor. She said in 13 years, her ability to get homes at the right price has resulted in only one appraisal in the past that required re-negotiating with the seller...and that one wasn't even half as large as the difference we got with this appraisal. Granted, I have only her word to go on with that but nothing I know of her would give me reason to doubt her.

If she is that good it should be no problem for her to provide 3-4 closed sales that support whatever value you and she think should have been reflected in the appraisal.
 
If the cost value was such that the average of the two STILL had you below water would you still support averaging the two?

The idea of the appraisal is not to play around with the numbers so your deal can move forward.

Oh for heaven's sake, I never said that it SHOULD have been used. That's called irony (humor), my comment about how I would have been fine if they were averaged. Obviously in today's market appraisers are probably never going to use the cost approach (certainly not for a resale) and I would expect that it's pretty much always higher in that case. But considering that the home I am buying is less than 10 years old, I just found it interesting where that value fell in comparison. Since new homes around here run only slightly more than comparable resales.
 
If she is that good it should be no problem for her to provide 3-4 closed sales that support whatever value you and she think should have been reflected in the appraisal.

She's already on top of that. We went over comps before putting in the bid, but for the appraisal we need to make sure we have ones that are the closest possible, and there's over a month of extra time since we last covered them. Plus we'll need to look at that size difference, since we did think the home was 240 sq ft larger than it actually is.

But ultimately it's still going to come down to whether the appraiser is willing to drop, or emphasis less, the short sale. We're not going to find many, if any, sales, closer than that one (it's 0.3 miles from the house I'm buying). But yes, we do at least want to have comps ready for the next one if we do need to go that way. I have seen that mentioned reading over other topics on here, that it can be good to be pro-active with the appraiser in terms of offering comps, correct?

And this may depend on if the seller is willing to take at least some cut in price based on the size being wrong. If they refuse to come down at all, then I'll have to walk away. So regardless of how it does turn out, the appraiser will have done me a big favor by finding that mistake in the size of the house. My impression of the seller though is that they really want to get this home sold and they aren't too stretched thin to compromise some.
 
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