Poll: Will you trade fee for volume in a slow market?

[Mark K]

I wonder how long before "Skynet" and that documentary "Terminator" comes to fruition?

LOL!!!

I have a cousin that's at the forefront of AI; he's a prof at UC Berkley. He's had a few startups and sold the last one to Tesla.

I was talking with him recently and he has several other in progress that he said are still in 'stealth' mode, meaning he can't discuss them yet. I asked him if one of them is named Cyberdyne System? He said no but I'm not sure I believe him....

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

The so-called cookie-cutter house can differ from other houses in upgrades, site size, location influence, and so on

But it is not always easy to determine upgrades and easy to overlook same. So, a cookie cutter subdivision rarely has any real premium lot that is worth more than any other in the same subdivision, and when built by the same builder - say Horton - they are certainly equal quality (low in Horton's case) and so you still have a rather large range of prices considering with one sale being several percent different from one next door with a slightly different floor plan. So, while these are all the same area, near same size, etc. the prices are not completely the same. There is a variance due to the lack of a uniform market in houses. I would argue that the difference betwen the $283k and the $250K homes are miniscule. So, why are we expecting 3-4% accuracy?

 

[J Grant]

But it is not always easy to determine upgrades and easy to overlook same. So, a cookie cutter subdivision rarely has any real premium lot that is worth more than any other in the same subdivision, and when built by the same builder - say Horton - they are certainly equal quality (low in Horton's case) and so you still have a rather large range of prices considering with one sale being several percent different from one next door with a slightly different floor plan. So, while these are all the same area, near same size, etc. the prices are not completely the same. There is a variance due to the lack of a uniform market in houses. I would argue that the difference betwen the $283k and the $250K homes are miniscule. So, why are we expecting 3-4% accuracy?
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Wrong - you do not appraise these properties on any regular volume basis so how do you know?

Thanks for being one of those appraisers who say things like this to allow use of AVMs or waivers to replace us. Espeically since it is based on assumptions that are false.

Lot premiums and upgrades and other factors can greatly affect "cookie cutter" houses - 10% , 20%, 30% or more price differentials. Even when new . And more so as they age and resell

And in many areas, even a starter "cookie cutter" house is 350-400k and higher quality or larger an easy 500-700k. That is a lot of $ at stake in equity for a borrower or a loan for an investor.

 

[George Hatch]

Appraisers don't allow the use of waivers and AVMs. Appraisers' opinions on the matter are neither required nor desired by the respective users of appraisals and their respective alternatives.

Why are you constantly trying to blame the outside observer for the insider's decisions? Do you think this outcome would somehow turn out differently if it wasn't for these wrongthink observations and comments? Does seeing the elephant in the room make the person seeing a traitor to the cause?

Appraisers don't matter enough to these users for them to even consider the question in terms of whether they agree or disagree with the appraisers.

 

[J Grant]

Appraisers don't allow the use of waivers and AVMs. Appraisers' opinions on the matter are neither required nor desired by the respective users of appraisals and their respective alternatives.

Why are you constantly trying to blame the outside observer for the insider's decisions? Do you think this outcome would somehow turn out differently if it wasn't for these observations and comments? Does seeing the elephant in the room make the person seeing a traitor to the cause?

Who are you addressing?

For myself, I never said appraisers do or do not allow the use of WAIVERS and AVMs. We have no say in that.

Since appraisers are the only ones out there in the market every day and the only licensed professions in the valuation role, I believe it is important to post the observations and facts and risks about these products and our analyses of why they are used. You do not seem to agree with that, or try to belittle posts about it - a pattern perhaps you are not aware of.

 

[George Hatch]

Who are you addressing?

For myself, I never said appraisers do or do not allow the use of WAIVERS and AVMs. We have no say in that.

Since appraisers are the only ones out there in the market every day and the only licensed professions in the valuation role, I believe it is important to post the observations and facts and risks about these products and our analyses of why they are used. You do not seem to agree with that, or try to belittle posts about it - a pattern perhaps you are not aware of.

I'm responding to the foolishment you posted, that's who

Wrong - you do not appraise these properties on any regular volume basis so how do you know?

Thanks for being one of those appraisers who say things like this to allow use of AVMs or waivers to replace us. Espeically since it is based on assumptions that are false.

Lot premiums and upgrades and other factors can greatly affect "cookie cutter" houses - 10% , 20%, 30% or more price differentials. Even when new . And more so as they age and resell

And in many areas, even a starter "cookie cutter" house is 350-400k and higher quality or larger an easy 500-700k. That is a lot of $ at stake in equity for a borrower or a loan for an investor.

That crack about me allegedly not agreeing with posting and commenting on the additional risks just is another JGrantism. My comment above wasn't an agreement or disagreement about risks or concerns, but about the way you continually smear the observations of what these lenders are actually doing as being uninformed and/or hostile to the interests of appraisers. Of which we are not; hostile, that is. We are not a factor in the reasons why the lenders are taking a portion of their business elsewhere.

Stop accusing us of things we didn't do, and stop accusing us of somehow being incapable of understanding any reasoning you are capable of articulating just because we're not a one-trick pony.

 

[J Grant]

I am allowed to observe that I can not think of any other profession where their own members agitate to remove entire sections of work away so profiteers can do it instead.AVM's and hybrids and PDC collections are making money when those products are removed from the apparisl pipeline. The companies and people who do those alternate products are not doing it for charity.


It is not just about a product because some other valuation products might be viable - it is about the role of the appraiser -in GSE-backed mortgage lending. Or other types of decisions. The appraiser is an independent third party with no stake in the outcome. A lender submtiing a value in a WAIVER has a stake in the outcome. As do the entities who greenlight a waiver because they want to see the loan pipeline flow without the speedbump of a"deal killer" appraisal done.

The more appraisers are marginalized or quit or spend most of their time at desks instead of being out in the market or observing a subject property, the more control other parties, companies, and entities, often with a conflict of interest, gain over the valuation process.

 

[alebrewer]

The appraiser is an independent third party with no stake in the outcome.

as are AVM's.

 

[TerryRohrer]

Wrong - you do not appraise these properties on any regular volume basis so how do you know?

Thanks for being one of those appraisers who say things like this to allow use of AVMs or waivers to replace us. Espeically since it is based on assumptions that are false.

Lot premiums and upgrades and other factors can greatly affect "cookie cutter" houses - 10% , 20%, 30% or more price differentials. Even when new . And more so as they age and resell

And in many areas, even a starter "cookie cutter" house is 350-400k and higher quality or larger an easy 500-700k. That is a lot of $ at stake in equity for a borrower or a loan for an investor.

Terrel's comment reveals that he can objectively analyze data and reach sound conclusions. Your response confirms (again) that you cannot.

I am allowed to observe that I can not think...

WE AGREE! I observe the very same!

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

you do not appraise these properties on any regular volume basis so how do you know?

That is a stupid lie. I don't do secondary market. I do appraise houses for non-FNMA lenders. So, I don't have to play the Fanniespeak game. So, then explain to me why there is such a wide pricing on basically identical construction of spec homes - these are not custom builds. They are sold after built for the most part and much of the difference in price revolves around timing, selection, and the skill of the sales staff. They are installing the same commodity items, same cheap vinyl windows, same siding, same roofing from the same roof contractors, and same appliances from the same sources. And they offer the same $3,500 seller concession.