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Predetermined Value USPAP

Zoe

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Tennessee
Clearly you did not read, or understand the posts, since nobody including myself say they resign simply because an owner or agent etc tells what they think a property is worth. The specific reasons for a decline are in the posts if you read them for context
How is than any different from reading a contract? Do you always come in at contract like FNMA suggests? I don't believe that either.
 

J Grant

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
How is than any different from reading a contract? Do you always come in at contract like FNMA suggests? I don't believe that either.
Addressed in the posts, did you actually read them?
 

Zoe

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Tennessee
As I said before, providing you with the info this is more of a problem for your client than you.

The distinction with the mortgage brokers is that their values were often expressed in terms of a contingent engagement or contingent fee arrangment. "You can have this assignment if you can return this value conclusion". That's not what the situation the OP is describing is doing. So that's the difference between what was happened then vs this current situation.

Now if an AMC is loading their engagements with contingent assignment conditions or contingent fee payment arrangements that result in you only getting the assignment if you cooperate with the predetermined value or only paying you for the deals you enable THEN you can equate that conduct with what the mtg brokers were commonly doing.

But yeah, it would be entirely appropriate to pass along the reference that they're not supposed to be leaving any breadcrumbs about their intentions with value conclusions. That way they won't get in trouble for it.


It was like can you meet this value? If so, I will send you assignment. Now, do I believe the same exists today through AMC's? Absolutely. Just not as blatant.

That was different. No way to spray off the cuff a value. It is way too complex.
 

Zoe

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Tennessee
What this man/woman received is market information. It is not predetermined value. Just proceed like borrower or whoever gave you their estimate of value and finish the assignment and get paid. They have a wild estimate of LTV which might be helpful. The MV may not be $230,000, much less $330,000. Don't focus on subject solely. Always focus on market.
 
Last edited:

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
So if real estate agent or homeowner or whoever tells you they think property is worth "X". You resign?
Again, that is different than coming from the lender/client. And most times can be ignored. But it depends on degree of aggression from a HO and a bully move such as will not pay for an appraisal or other threat might make me give assignment back. Though with lender work now the borrower pays upfront to lender so that is not a threat they can make anymore. In a private assignment i tell the person over the phone my job is to opine MV and not to advocate for any party or reach a $ target, are they okay with that? Have the conversation before go to the property.
These threads always make me laugh and shows just how thin-skinned so many appraisers are. If I spent 5 minutes thinking about all the ways lenders, buyers, sellers, realtors throw around predetermined values it would be a never ending freight train to appraiser hell. It's silly for appraisers to believe that HVCC and appraiser independence is enforced by anyone. The truth is the individual appraiser has to establish his/her own guidelines and each situation is taken case by case. An-Order with the borrowers estimate of value and loan amount is not a predetermined value its only what another person thinks and i would have no problem with it and I would not complain or ask that lender to change or how they operate. Appraisers need to put their big-boy pants on and grow up.
 

Zoe

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Tennessee
I told several mortgage brokers back in the day, "i think so". That was bad. Especially when it didn't turn out that way. LOL

Same way with participants today. I realized why they were mad when mortgage broker told me I just cost him $9,000 on about a $230,000 loan.
 

J Grant

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Some of the clumsy attempts by sellers or RE agents are comical ( not to them but oh boy it is hard to keep a straight face at times )

I;ve gotten very good at keeping a neutral poker face . make neutral nothing burger but polite response.. I will take a list of sales from a builder, RE agent or Owner, which does not mean I will use them though I will look at them. Occasionally there is a good one in there, 90% or more are NA
 

ramrcdk

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
These threads always make me laugh and shows just how thin-skinned so many appraisers are. If I spent 5 minutes thinking about all the ways lenders, buyers, sellers, realtors throw around predetermined values it would be a never ending freight train to appraiser hell. It's silly for appraisers to believe that HVCC and appraiser independence is enforced by anyone. The truth is the individual appraiser has to establish his/her own guidelines and each situation is taken case by case. An-Order with the borrowers estimate of value and loan amount is not a predetermined value its only what another person thinks and i would have no problem with it and I would not complain or ask that lender to change or how they operate. Appraisers need to put their big-boy pants on and grow up.
YES
and why back-in the day there was a statement in all my reports defining what you just said for clarity & to not be construed as misleading.
Predetermined Value is NOT what an appraiser does.
As said, haven't had an order like per Tread Poster in YEARS and where I did get one: I would in the least request #S be removed & resent. No Biggy either way...just document and move ON.
 

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Some of the clumsy attempts by sellers or RE agents are comical ( not to them but oh boy it is hard to keep a straight face at times )

I;ve gotten very good at keeping a neutral poker face . make neutral nothing burger but polite response.. I will take a list of sales from a builder, RE agent or Owner, which does not mean I will use them though I will look at them. Occasionally there is a good one in there, 90% or more are NA

The best one I had encountered was what I called the Femanazi from appraisal hell. She shows up with a Big German Shepard- I am like nice Dog does he bite ? The appraiser says yeah he bites and he does not like men, so you sit in the front yard. I am like you can't take that dog inside, leave him with me. She says it's a therapy and my test dog. I am like that Big German Shepard is a therapy Dog ? and what the hell does he test ? She responds with yes and he is also a-retired K-9 and is trained to attack on command, and he hates men. I respond with OK I get he hates men so can you please just get your inspection done and then you and the dog don't need to come back again. Suddenly She gets all Alpha and says you don't ever tell me if me and my dog can come back again, because we are going to be coming back because you don't have a carbon monoxide detector installed, I am like hey I have one in my truck and its a plug in so can you just give me like 3 minutes to get it and plug it in-and you then can take a photo of it. She looks at me and says no, you should have had it installed when I arrived and its not my problem that you didn't do your job. I yell hey you told me to shut up and sit outside, and now you can't even give me 3 minutes ? She says no, I will swing by another day to sign off on the 1004-D. I am like that's going to cost me another $100.00 bucks and it's not necessary because I can send you a photo right now to your Phone. She says nope too late and now my re-inspection is going to be $150.00 because me and my dog don't like you. Now I am yelling at her and I ask , what do you mean WE is that you and the dog ? She says yes he is very smart and when I push the test button if it makes the right noise he will bark. I am like so your dog is trained to bark if a Smoke or Co Detector is operating, She says yes he does, I am laughing and I say fine when you come back I want to see this dog bark. Two days later her and the dog show up. I open the door and show her and her dog where the Co Detector is installed, She walks up with the dog and She pushes the test button and the dog barks once. I look at her and say-so what, let me get another one and let's take the battery out of it and see if your dog knows the difference. She says fine Mr Bossy, lets do it. I take the battery out and push the button and the dog barks twice, and I say see that dog has no clue. She says yes he does if the battery is operational he only barks once and if its dead or missing he barks twice. OK fine he barked once so we know my Co-Detector works, it was nice meeting you and your dog.
 

sputnam

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I'm not sure it's over the line however, I would be likely to decline the assignment.... and let them know that including their estimate of value could be problematic because of the 'predetermined value or direction of value' thing.
 
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