Pretty blatent wouldn't you say?

[Webbed Feet]

<....... snip......>So gee.. If I just do this and if the value is just right, shameless will be happy!

Oh my day is complete! Life has a purpose once again. :new_multi:

Mr. Rasch,

Here is how I handle such things. A) Forward request to Pammy's Place ... B) Call one of my better clients, that knows how to get their **** together, and tell them I have a hot lead for them for a mortgage loan .... C) Send the shameless MBer a thank you note. But not say why I thanked them specifically other than note I am leaving on vacation today and can't help them this time. But please! Send all the requests to me they have in my area and I'll be sure to thank them again for the consideration.

Webbed.

 

[saxon]

Mr. Phillips,

Actually, you have it all backwards. It was many of the old timers that lacked the mental capacity and education for two things that caused all the problems. A) Their practices of doing comp searches back in the good ol days was never ethical even back then. B) USPAP came along and they couldn't grasp what it said.

None of it ever had a thing to do with what the score was, or wasn't, in the ballpark.

Webbed.

My pop never did comp searches on the bar napkin appraisals back in the day !!

 

[Mike Phillips]

Mr. Phillips,

Actually, you have it all backwards. It was many of the old timers that lacked the mental capacity and education for two things that caused all the problems. A) Their practices of doing comp searches back in the good ol days was never ethical even back then. B) USPAP came along and they couldn't grasp what it said.

None of it ever had a thing to do with what the score was, or wasn't, in the ballpark.

Webbed.

Feathered Friend -

My post referenced the period from '82-'98 +/-.

USPAP didn't arrive until 1990. Prior to '90 if appraisers were regulated at all in a given state (and many weren't), it was their activities as a real estate salesmen or brokers that were regulated.

Prior to '90 there weren't any real restrictions that prohibited a real estate salesman/broker from providing an OMV of a client's property, written or verbal, with absolutely no support whatsoever, regardless of whether they ever set foot on the property.

There certainly were no restrictions whatsoever, on doing what appraisers refer to today as "comp searches." So, regarding what was or was not considered ethical appraisal practive prior to 1990/USPAP, you are just flat wrong.

USPAP began to evolve after 1990 and it has continued to evolve ever since. It didn't come out of the gate in its present form. USPAP has always prohibited accepting an assignment that is contingent upon a predetermined value - but we aren't talking about that. And FTR, there is no such thing as a "comp search." My use of the term was in reference to Bama's post "comp check garbage."

USPAP has evolved to the point where just about anything an appraiser says about a subject property constitutes an appraisal. But that wasn't the case in the period between '90 - '98. The notion that searching public records, determining the characteristics of the subject property and completing a comparable search (without ever mentioning a value) and delivering the research to a client, verbally or in written form, was NOT considered to be an appraisal. All of that has changed, but that change is a fairly recent development if you view it from the perspective of an appraiser who started in the business in '82.

If you wish to believe there were never any legitimate cases when mortgage lenders, especially bankers, were simply requesting "comp searches" to avoid damaging or destroying their relationship with a client then that is up to you. But I would suggest you include "based on my experience." My post reflected MY experience.

As a side note, back in the day, there really were individuals who took pride in paying their bills, in never having collected unemployment or welfare, and there really were bankers who loaned their own money - yes, really, and they were concerned about the accuracy of appraisals and the financial welfare of their borrowers.

 

[Mike Phillips]

My pop never did comp searches on the bar napkin appraisals back in the day !!

Have you ever really asked him if he ever did "comp searches?" My first boss in '82 was one of the most respected real estate brokers and appraisers in Orlando and his appraisals amounted to inspecting the subject, looking at half a dozen sales of area properties (several of which he had usually brokered), punching a few numbers in the calculator, summarizing his several "approaches" to value, and communicating his conclusion on a standard cover letter.

And those "appraisals" were accepted by the most reputable lenders (not MBs - freaking banks) in the Orlando area - folks who were loaning their money. His specialty was Winter Park, FL which any appraiser with local knowlegde knows can be a nightmare.

Tell your dad I said I'd probably take his "appraisal" scratched out on a bar napkin long before I'd take the work of today's USPAP-spewing form fillers.

 

[Couch Potato]

Mike, that is because the credibility of the report was based on its author, not the data in the report. In todays world, all authors are assumed to have no credibility and the data reigns supreme.

 

[Lee Lansford]

...
USPAP was a great idea until they put their blessing on comp checks... /QUOTE]

Where's that in the USPAP?

I'm aware that if an appraiser who is subject to the USPAP delivers an opinion of value, the appraiser has communicated an appraisal. But, I'm unaware of USPAP standards for "comp checks".

 

[Mike Phillips]

Duck and Seymon:

However, I must offer an apology re: "A huge generation of rookie appraisers started entering the field and they just couldn't grasp the concept."

I know better than that; it is rarely the child and usually the parent who is at fault. Whether or not anyone agrees that, in the past, there were legitimate cases when "comp searches" were requested and delivered, for the sole purpose of helping the lender avoid the borrower wasting their money, with absolutely NO guarantee regarding the final valuation, is NOT the issue any longer. The truth is, it was the failure of supervisors to teach the appraisers that followed them where the line was supposed to have been drawn, as it is with so many other issues in appraising.

 

[xmtpedprl]

I can't speak for the past, but as for today this is my take:

Comp checks are the equivalent of talking yourself OUT of a job, bottom line. You can do (and many people will do) 35 of those a week, and, maybe, if they're lucky, they *might* get a job or two. The better part of surviving in this uneducated world of financing these days (if you're dealing with lenders, MBs, etc...) is to talk yourself INTO work, not out of it.

The problem, however, is that so many appraisers operate under the assumption (and I believe sincerely so) that the ONLY way to get business is to 'get it' before the order is even submitted, not afterwards.

My method is to get the order, be 'optimistically ambiguous,' self yourself in the process, and let all things fall into place afterwards, As many here will be tempted to say (and I am sincerely asking that they hold their temptations in abeyance for the purposes of this thread continuing)
my methods are perhaps sketchy. However, until the reigns are pulled in on the obvious, and repeat, offenders of the lending world, that you may have to do things to survive. I *am* going to make it through this, and my desire is to compromise as little as possible during what will amount to a blip on the map of history in terms of the insanity that is the past 7 years or so.

The key is obviously to diversify. None of our REO clients ask for values. Gee, wonder why that is. None of my ERC clients ask for values, ditto. And so on.

It's just not fair (life oftentimes is not!) that the lenders & MBs can, and do demand to know beforehand, especially in light of all the evidence that can be provided in order to fine them, if not shut them down completely. However, since there is NO ENFORCEMENT AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, no one is helping us, no one has our backs, people will do what they have to do in order to pay the bills and put food on their tables.

AMCs are not the answer, either, as most of them just add an additional layer of corruption to the process.

Funny thing is, these MBs are so dumb. So stupid. If they sold themselves, and sold their clients on their wonderful, hard working and trustworthy appraisers they use, they would actually HAVE more 'deals.' Once that money trades hands these owners tend to come down to Earth more often than not, and that's a fact, I know, I see it all the time with those rare clients who actually believe me when I suggest it.

Dave...

 

[EveInColorado]

Blatant... here's another one. So what would you do?
[Appraiser wrote} Hi, Ms X, I have not yet received payment for the work on G. at X St. , Denver. The report and invoice are dated 5/24/08. After 30 days, I will have to charge a late fee. Please let me know if you need another copy of the invoice. Thank you, .... [Reply =] I do not need another copy of the invoice and am quite sure that you will receive payment on this appraisal when the transaction actually takes place. The bank holding the property is holding up the deal. ... [Me = ] I'm not sure you understand about the need to pay appraisers in a timely manner. Please note URAR page 5 Appraiser's Certification that all appraisers must sign to validate the report. In part it says, "18. My employment and/or compensation ... was not conditioned on any agreement .... the attainment of a specific result or occurrence of a specific subsequent event (such as approval of a pending mortgage loan application)." If this statement is not clear enough for you, please ask your underwriter or FHA about this. My standard grace period is 30 days and that time has passed.
My fee is due. The rebilling fee is $50. The new invoice is attached. ...
[ Reply of Mtg Co. Manager] All: Effective 6/25/08 [Appraiser's Name] has been added to the A..... N....... Mortgage "Non-Allowable Vendor List".
[Me=] I would like to report them, but I'm in Colorado and the laws are all in their favor!!! Also, am I now in VIOLATION because I signed a cert that says my fee is NOT conditioned upon the closing and now it is?? So cert. 18 is a lie ???

 

[xmtpedprl]

It's not a lie, rather, a joke. Like all other 'rules' if they lack enforcement then what's the point...?

No one has our backs, NO ONE.

Dave...