Price fixing by AMC's

[Doug Wegener]

Fixed fee

Beats me.



Regardless of the percentage they "control," the fees got where they are because appraisers chose to accept them, not because AMCs set the fees. If nobody accepts their "fixed" fee, then they must raise it.

Thats right we give them the power to slit our throats.

However, many are willing to work for those fees. And the only way that can be done is doing a poor job not compliant to USPAP, and not investigating sales concessions and making appropriate adjustments.

Another way to stop what is going on is to take on these reviews they want to pay a piddling fee for and turn the culprits into the state enforcement boards.

You know these $195 appraisals are slip-shod.

 

[Lee Lansford]

What can that be called but price fixing?

The market in action?

Ever notice the similarity in housing prices of compatible properties within a neighborhood? Did the sellers get together and fix prices for the neighborhood?

I noticed yesterday that the gasoline service centers in my neighborhood all have similar pricing. Is this "price fixing"?

Why would you suspect that AMCs have to collude in order to push prices down? No need to collude: they have enough appraisers assisting in the efforts to minimize their costs.

 

[William K]

The market in action?

Ever notice the similarity in housing prices of compatible properties within a neighborhood? Did the sellers get together and fix prices for the neighborhood?

I noticed yesterday that the gasoline service centers in my neighborhood all have similar pricing. Is this "price fixing"?

Why would you suspect that AMCs have to collude in order to push prices down? No need to collude: they have enough appraisers assisting in the efforts to minimize their costs.

Lee , you are so right.
I see no artificailly working to keep prices down, on the contrary I see AMC's charging more for the product just not paying the appraiser more because they realize there is far more demand of work by appraisers than there is work.
AMC's don't need to collude, we as a profession hand them their increased profits and say thanks for allowing us to provide you with your product!

 

[Riick]

<snipped> Certainly, there is a trend to suppress fees since some lenders offer "no fee" mortgages. Obviously, they will want an appraisal for as cheaply as possible since they're footing the bill.

:icon_idea: You might as well say appraisers are footing the bill.
Actually, as you ought to know: TANSTAAFL -- There ain't no such thing as a Free Lunch.
The consumer is paying the freight, in a hair higher interest rate.
Lender is paying full freight for the appraisal, AMC pocketing the difference.
Anyone out there with friends in the Title industry who can get the appraisal fee shown for a couple hundred HUD-1s to check this out and be sure?

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

Thats right we give them the power to slit our throats.

However, many are willing to work for those fees. And the only way that can be done is doing a poor job not compliant to USPAP, and not investigating sales concessions and making appropriate adjustments.

Another way to stop what is going on is to take on these reviews they want to pay a piddling fee for and turn the culprits into the state enforcement boards.

You know these $195 appraisals are slip-shod.

Unfortunately, not true. I am sure you have loads of data to support this assumption. The "corporate lackeys" I am familiar with seem to think they have a higher quality of appraiser because of their underwriting requirements and system.

I am sure it is probably just like full fee assignments. Although, I would probably argue that skippy gets full fee for his product, because brokers will pay to get their loan done.

Now, I am sure there are plenty of AMC appraisers that are under trained and have poor appraisal skills. How, is that different than the full fee world?

I love reading the well thought out conclusions based on no facts made on this forum.

 

[RICHARD D. FRANK]

we need to form AMC cooperatives. It would work. google "cooperative" it's very simple and would work. I should form one.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

I have a copy of a 'converted' appraisal and the lender included an invoice from the appraiser in the amount of $361.00.

* Appraisal report pages no longer have the appraisers company name, but are now AIReady (for datamining?!!)

* Invoice has LSI's address for the appraiser's address and is not in any format the appraiser has to make an invoice.

* Appraiser was actually paid $150.00 by LSI.

* Appraisal comments are moved and/or just plain gone!.

This was for a WAMU refi.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Thats right we give them the power to slit our throats.

However, many are willing to work for those fees. And the only way that can be done is doing a poor job not compliant to USPAP, and not investigating sales concessions and making appropriate adjustments.

Another way to stop what is going on is to take on these reviews they want to pay a piddling fee for and turn the culprits into the state enforcement boards.

You know these $195 appraisals are slip-shod.

I simply look at it from a business perspective. Can I work for those fees? The answer is absolutely not. So I ventured into other areas of the appraisal business. It takes reeducation and time. Now I work in areas of the profession where, for the most part, I'm not competing with the incompetent. The incompetent pop up once in a while, but it doesn't take that many times be discredited in a court room or something similar before one gets a bad rep and simply isn't hired anymore.

If every appraiser took this approach, there would be no reason for legislation, litigation, or unions to change the situation. The clients specific to this one market segment would have to get real or go out of business.

 

[TJSum]

Usually the AMC's or lender operated AMC do not allow the appraiser's invoice to be attached to the report. They do not want the borrower to see how much the appraiser's fee was vs. what they had to pay the lender for the appraisal.

 

[Tim Vining]

Non-disclosure of the fee could be a RESPA violation and or depending on the state could be a Consumer Protection Act violation. Also, when the issue of opening and changing appraisal reports comes up with anyone a good move would be to have your appraisal reports registered with the copyright office. Registering your reports (with the invoice) will serve as independent third party evidence of the true and correct report. You can take all of your appraisal reports and register them at one time as a compilation for a cost of $45.00. The US Copyright office is also beta testing electronic registration. It is not if but when appraisers will be sued by lenders on such issues as contributing to mortgage fraud it would be quite beneficial to have your work registered with the copyright office.

If you want more information about copyright check out the US Copyright Office website at www.copyright.gov. Download the publication Copyright Basics.

Tim Vining, MAI

one man with courage is a majority (Thomas Jefferson)