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PUD argument with underwriter. Need help!

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StephHigdem

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Idaho
Need some help with this one folks...

Subject is in a new subdivision, $500/year HOA fees for pressurized irrigation & maintenance of common area (entry & water retention area).

Underwriter is insisting I have to change it because title reports that the CC&R's stat that it's not a PUD.

I cut & paste the Fannie Mae definition from Chapter 3 of the selling guide, but still they won't budge.

This is a local bank, good client, not one I want to p*ss off.

I would love to be wrong here (and I know I came to the right place to be told if I am!).

Anyway.... what else can I do to convince them? Anyone have any magic words?

Thanks much
 
Mandatory HOA dues = PUD.
 
have a copy of the deed / legal description?
 
We don't "do" deeds as a normal course of business; as a non-disclosure state it's not typical here. My legal is Subdivision Name Lot 4.
Even if the CC&R's state it's not a PUD, they are using the zoning term - right?

Breaking news... loan is being sold to Freddie Mac... I'm less familiar with their regs, are they different on this issue?
 
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Does your state require title insurance? If so, then a title insurance agency will have the information, such as whether or not the HOA fees are mandatory. Also, someone has to be in charge of making sure the work is done for the fees being paid - is the builder still in charge of the HOA? Or is there now a homeowners' association. At any rate, the title insurance company has to have the information as it is part of the closing information that they are required to give. If the HOA fees are required, then a lien can be filed against the subject.
 
For the Fannie forms, any mandatory HOA fee = PUD.

Don't feel bad, I had a hard time with that one when I began appraising and I did 'fight it out' with a UW about that way back then. I lost. It is somewhere in the Fannie guidelines. I know it's not absolutely correct, but that is the Fannie form 'definition' of a PUD.
 
If you are being required to complete the PUD portion of the 1004 because of the HOA, just state so. The HOA does not create a PUD, zoning (for most of us) does.

Give them the HOA data and comment that per the Legal and zoning, that the subject development is not a PUD. Done.
 
FREDDIE 2003 PUD - GUIDELINES

PUD Requirements:
· Please submit all PUDs through proper channels to obtain PUD approval.

· All projects must meet FHLMC requirements as follows:

-


The individual unit owners own a parcel of land improved with a dwelling. This ownership is not in common with other unit owners.

-
The development is administered by a homeowners association that owns and is obligated to maintain property and improvements within the development (for example, greenbelts, recreation facilities and parking areas) for the common use and benefit of the unit owners.

-


The unit owners have an automatic, nonseverable interest in the homeowners association and pay mandatory assessments.

Freddie Mac Underwriting Guidelines 12 July 24, 2003



___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


PUD Requirements (continued):


· Insurance requirements:
-
If the individual units are covered by insurance purchased by their respective owners, the PUD homeowners’ association must maintain “all risk” coverage for common areas and property for 100% of their insurable value and providing for loss or damage settlement on a replacement cost basis. The association must also obtain any additional coverage commonly required by private mortgage investors for developments similar in construction, location and use, including the following where applicable and available:

ü Agreed amount

ü Demolition cost

ü Increased cost of construction

ü Boiler and machinery
-
The PUD homeowners’ association must maintain coverage on common areas and property for 100% of their insurable value. Deductibles may not exceed the lower of $5,000 or 1% of the applicable amount of coverage.


Funds for such deductibles must be included in the association’s reserves and must be so designated.



Liability Insurance:



- The PUD owners’ association must carry comprehensive general liability insurance covering all common areas, common elements, commercial spaces and public ways in the PUD project.
If not already included in the terms of the coverage, there must be a “severability of interest” endorsement precluding the insurer’s denial of a unit owner’s claim because of negligent acts by the association or other unit owners.


The association must carry any additional coverage commonly required by private mortgage investors for developments similar in construction, location and use, including the following where applicable and available:

Comprehensive automobile liability

Bailee’s liability

Elevator collision liability

Garage keeper’s liability

Host liquor liability

Worker’s compensation and employer’s liability

Contractual liability


The insurer’s limit of liability per occurrence for personal injury, bodily injury or property damage under the terms of the above coverage’s must be at least $1Million
______________________________

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu9R0v...Freddie%20Mac%20Underwriting%20Guidelines.pdf

PAGE 11.

** Poster Recommendation: compare subject's HOA structure, Individual Property Owners' ownership of both the HOA and common area lot ownership, etc. with the ABOVE requirements for PUD underwriting to determine IF the subject's "HOA" MEETS Freddies Criteria for a PUD.
 
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Are we confusing a PUD with a PD when we state "The HOA does not create a PUD, zoning (for most of us) does."

A Planned Unit Development is a non-zoning term describing a development where there is common ownership in certain amenities paid for by each owner in the development through an association.

A Planned Development is a zoning term (or specific zoning) used for neighborhoods where the general plan desires to allow flexibility in design and development in order to promote economical and efficient use of land; to increase the level of urban amenities; to preserve the natural environment; and to provide for phased completion of development projects. It generally provides a method for deviating from standardized zoning requirements to foster well-planned, creative, and quality development.


Two different animals although I suppose there could be a PUD in an area zoned PD.
 
Greg,

Once again, this shows how things are looked at differently throughout the country.

In many of the municipalities around me, they have a zoning code called PUD (planned unit development). Some of these zoning areas contain platted subs, others site condos (that's another discussion) and some are mixed use. This zoning class is most often assigned to a parcel of land or larger area, as a result of a developer's desire for a non-conforming use under current zoning, but fits the intent of the master plan or desires of the commission.

The first local use was a tract of land, about 80 acres, zoned 3 ac min. the developer came in with a plan of about 50 homes clustered together and 50% of the total land to remain open. The planning board liked it a lot, but it didn't fit the zoning, hence the rezoning to PUD. The HOA actually holds the deed for the open 40 ac with a restriction that it must remain open land for the enjoyment of the home owners AND the community as a whole. Nice...

Another one is an attempt to bring a downtown feel to the suburbs. Multi story "row house" style buildings with office/business on the first floor and living above. This was unique for the 'burbs. Mixed use. So it got filed under a PUD zoning.

One might argue that we're talking about USE vs ZONING, but that's the way it's done in this part of the State.
 
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