PUD vs. HOA

[Mountain Man]

Oooooh, I wondered what kind of folks checked that little box. :?: 8)
Co-Ops don't exist here. It is either yes or no.... other than that, it is for the attorneez type to figure out.

 

[Paul Ness MAI]

MLeggett - I don't necessarily agree with your attorney. I used to live in a PUD. It was a PUD because it was designed and received govt approvals as such having a mix of SFR's, semi-detached, condo's, and even a mobile home park (it's owner had one vote). When contructed, it was required to have a recreation area (golf course), and there are other common areas.

As for the HOA, I used to be on the board. It is mandatory but the rules were written so poorly that there was no recourse available to the HOA for violators. It is still a PUD. Now the development is nearly sold out, the golf course was abandonded because of the high maintenance costs and its land was sold to the local municipality for rec use. With the exception of responsibility for about a 100 foot long sidewalk that is owned by the assn as well as two retention basins, the HOA serves no purpose and may be disolved if these areas can be deeded to the municipality as well. No dues have been charged for about five years due to a windfall received as part of a law suit with the mobile home park owner, and in fact there is a surplus of money sitting in the HOA acct earning interest. With no legal teeth in the by-laws and the possibility of eliminating the HOA, the development is still a PUD, isn't it?

 

[Bemis Pownall]

An HOA is typically a private non-profit organization consisting of the property owners of a given neighborhood. The HOA is usually responsible for maintenance of common areas and they charge dues to the home owners as a source of revenue.

True and they hire their relatives to do much of the maintenance, and pay them handsomely!...in some cases.

In these parts HOA fees can keep values down in certain projects. Low price inventory with high HOA fees. Seen $70K housing with $300/mth fee with NO recreational facalities!

Now what is the difference between condo, townhome and single family????

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Condo is a type of ownership based on legal documents, has a mandatory home owner's association with a monthly, quarterly or yearly fee and may be any style.

Townhome is a style or design or just a handy term that someone might think is impressive and has nothing to do with legal documents.

For finanacing purposes a PUD is also a type of ownership based on legal documents, has a mandatory home owner's association with a monthly, quarterly or yearly fee and may be of any style. The home owner's association may or may not own some land that could range from a space big enough for a sign to very elaborate recreational areas and greenbelts.

A zoning of PUD or Planned Unit Development is a governmental zoning regulation and is a separate issue from a condo or PUD type of ownership and would not have anything that would involve a home owner's association.

A single family residence is one constructed and designed for occupancy by a single family unit, it could include guest quarters or guest home for family members. A single family residence could be in an area zoned for a PUD but not in a subdivision with PUD CC &Rs and not have a home owner's association. It also could be in a subdivision with PUD CC&RS and have a home owner's association with fees. And it does appear that in some states it could even be in a subdivision with condo CC&R's (although not in Arizona). A condo ownerhship in Arizona is only ownership of the air and interior walls of a unit. In Arizona, the exterior walls and land is owned by the home owner's association, not the individual, which has an undivided interest.

 

[Charlotte Dixon]

"Mandatory Homeowners Assoc. Fees".....That is the key. We have tons of PUDS around here. The new planning/zoning laws for the county require that every new subdivision have a storm drainage facility (no storms, no water, thus no draining...i.e. dry as a bone here). However, someone must maintain that facility (mow the grass and weeds). Thus the homeowners are levied a fee, per month. It could be as little as $3.33 per month. On these new subdivisions there is a clause in each lot's legal description/deed stating that "upon completion of new construction within the subdivision, and when the builder has completed all phases, a mandatory homeowners association shall be formed to maintain common open space"...The V.A. previously required that all subdivisions be approved by them if there was a veteran borrower, but have since given up on that job. The Realtors automatically say "no homeowners association" in their listings. But that is not to say there WON'T BE ! If I find the above to be true (search the deed) I check YES in the PUD box. That's when everyone jumps up and down because they say there ISN'T ONE NOW. Good grief, if the builder completes the subdivision within a short period of time, there could be one in 6 months or so!

 

[Paul Ness MAI]

Jo Ann, please explain how PUD is a type of ownership as you stated in your previous post. That's a new one for me although I confess I am not a residential appraiser.

 

[Bemis Pownall]

Isnt single family ownerhip of the footprint(at least) to the center of the earth and to the stars?

And condo ownership is air space?

I recently did what looked like a condo smelled like one and walked like one, well below them were 2 garages for other units? and guess what legal discription was single family, I put it on a condo form, opps.

 

[Charlotte Dixon]

Paul, although Jo Ann is better at "splaining"...

Subdivisions here, which are PUDS if there is a mandatory homeowners association, have clauses in their legal descriptions saying......"along with a shared interest in the common elements/grounds"...like Jo Ann said, could only be a sign at the entrance. Here in Delaware, storm drainage facilities are mandatory in this county....The open space belongs to the homeowners and must be maintained by them. It's all outlined in their legal descriptions/deeds/declaration of restrictions.

We have one strange subdivision here which is a doublewide community, in fee simple ownership (own their land) along with each unit holding a % interest in the pool, tennis, clubhouse, etc. All legal documents state that this is a condo development. There must be 75 pages of explanation stating what portion of the amenities each unit owns. It reads like a typical condo document. It is the only one like it within 100 miles, so to get a job in there is pure hell!

 

[Charlotte Dixon]

Isnt single family ownerhip of the footprint(at least) to the center of the earth and to the stars?And condo ownership is air space?opps.

We thought so, but forget all that. These other types of communities can sneak up on us. See my above post about the doublewide community, which is in fee simple for the land and home, but it is called a condo community because of the shared interest in the amenities. It's a strange one.

 

[Paul Ness MAI]

Bemis, single-family is not a form of ownership, it is a type a housing. This is an old confusing recurring topic for many appraisers and it shouldn't be...confusing type of housing style with form of legal ownership.

SFR's are typically owned in a fee simple interest, which includes as you say, the classical "cone" extending from the center of the earth into the sky. Fee simple is the entire "bundle of rights". Are you sitting down?.....SFR's can also be owned as condo units but just let that thought go for now.

Townhouses and villas are also a form of housing (architectural style) that can be owned in fee or as a condo. When townhouses/villas are owned in fee there is a surveyed site which includes the unit and often a lawn area from the street extending to the end of a rear yard and as wide as the unit itself. Think of townhouses as the old inner city 2-story row houses and villas are a 1-story version. They can be anywhere from 2 to 8 or 10 attached in a row or even X-shaped 4-unit buildings as I used to appraise in Florida many years ago (do they still build those things with the mansard roofs?).

Now, condo is a form of fee simple ownership defined in condo docs, typically including the following...all the air space within the designated unit plus a proportionate share of the common elements of the entire condo, i.e. the building, recreational amenities, parking lots and garages as well as the ground underneath the entire project. To further confuse you there can be limited common elements such as parking spaces designated for an individual unit. Townhouses and villas can also be owned as condos. High-rise units or flats are owned as condos or co-ops. Co-ops are for another post.