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Questions on built up % - 1004 Neighborhood section

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I thought it meant total land use for density considerations, not just ownership allotment of land.

I mean if everyone is sitting on a quarter or even a sixth acre, there is still somewhere between 25 and 75% not built up land.

Do roads count? Gardens? With so much 'land' available, even if it's owned by one party or another, I've always assumed that's the 75% or less consideration.

I've only noted over 75%, if the actual physical brick and mortar buildings occupied the majority of the landscape, like for midrises and such. But even row townhomes I thought still fell in the under 75% category.

Am I wrong on that? I'm open to suggestion on this one.
 
I thought it meant total land use for density considerations, not just ownership allotment of land.

I mean if everyone is sitting on a quarter or even a sixth acre, there is still somewhere between 25 and 75% not built up land.

Do roads count? Gardens? With so much 'land' available, even if it's owned by one party or another, I've always assumed that's the 75% or less consideration.

I've only noted over 75%, if the actual physical brick and mortar buildings occupied the majority of the landscape, like for midrises and such. But even row townhomes I thought still fell in the under 75% category.

Am I wrong on that? I'm open to suggestion on this one.

MHT,

I won't offer you right or wrong but only my understanding of the forms.

I think the URAR form is structured for the typical residential appraisal with a subdivision as the defined neighborhood.

When a neighborhood/subdivision is properly defined, it is easy to determine how many unimproved sites are left.

I do not believe the form question was intended to identify development of a neighborhood described as the northwest quadrant of the entire county like some descriptions I have seen.

If a particular assignment is outside the intent of the form, I would explain with comments.

So in short, my answer depends on how my neighborhood is defined.
 
Built-up • Enter the built-up percentage – the percentage of available land that has been improved. Land such as a state park would not be considered available land.
 
Good rex, we're half way there.

Available to whom?

I've got 75% of my owned land space, not built up.

It's a friggin dust bowl out back and I need professional help with things like retaing walls and fences, and all of that. only the little corner where I do free range composting, has healthy soils.

Yet, there is 0% available land space left to be built up, unless you count the undeveloped commercially available lot, which borders our neighborhood.

Would I note a typical finished suburan area as over 75%
__________________________________________________

JUST WAIT, until Fannie tracks and associates this one. Talk about a set up to fail issue.

With the new Fannie black list, we need to all get on the same page because the purpose of the black list is to eliminate appraisers all together.
 
If the land can not be further sub divided per zoning, then it is no longer available. If the land is road and ROW, it is not available.
 
Common sense

As a reviewer, I bring up your defined neighborhood in Google Maps, then put on the satellite view. If what you check seems reasonable from that perspective, I move on. If your neighborhood is less than 75% built up, then you should tell me in the narrative where things are in the development cycle; is their building taking place (if so, what kind of building and if its one project or many), what is the hold time for lots, etc...That information is much more important that determining whether the angel on the head of a pin falls on the + or - side of 75%.

As far as determining Rural from Suburban from Urban, this goes to locational competency. Basically, if you are appraising a property and cannot make this distinction, you do not know the area well enough to appraise the property competently. I can't wait for the mud pies to start flying on this one, but this is my opinion and I am sticking to it.
 
Is this a part of the form where there is no concrete guidance anywhere and appraisers are just checking it willy nilly? Seems so.

I don't see how you could tell much of anything with Google maps sometimes. In many rural areas where I appraise now most of the lots are 2.5 to 5 acres minimum and if you looked at google maps it would look like there is lots of land available for development, yet in reality there are very few vacant lots.

In new home subdivisions you can tell how much has been built up by counting lots.

And is there any concrete guidance as to what constitutes urban, suburban, and rural?

In a small town, is the downtown area urban?

In a small town, is the area outside of the downtown area suburban?

Is the urban growth boundary outside a small town rural or is is suburban?

Show me the concrete guidance as to what constitutes suburban, urban, or rural if it exists.
 
Is this a part of the form where there is no concrete guidance anywhere and appraisers are just checking it willy nilly? Seems so.

I don't see how you could tell much of anything with Google maps sometimes. In many rural areas where I appraise now most of the lots are 2.5 to 5 acres minimum and if you looked at google maps it would look like there is lots of land available for development, yet in reality there are very few vacant lots.

In new home subdivisions you can tell how much has been built up by counting lots.

And is there any concrete guidance as to what constitutes urban, suburban, and rural?

In a small town, is the downtown area urban?

In a small town, is the area outside of the downtown area suburban?

Is the urban growth boundary outside a small town rural or is is suburban?

Show me the concrete guidance as to what constitutes suburban, urban, or rural if it exists.

There's no concrete guidance that I'm aware of. There is a starting point in the Dictionary of Real Estate Finance, but even its definitions of the terms is ambiguous.

Except, perhaps, for its definition of "rural" although even it is couched in terms of what it isn't ("Pertaining to the country as opposed to urban or suburban...".) And, it does include agricultural use, slow growth and less than 25% developed.

As is obvious, people working in different areas are going to have different opinions about how this is to be reported. Ex. Doug, you mention "rural" as an area of tracts of 2.5 to 5 acres. For example, if I were appraising in a very lightly developed area ("neighborhood" or "market area") - few houses, a very wide range of parcel sizes, some hilly land, some wooded tracts - in which roads are paved, all utilities present except public sewer, and which is within a 10 minute drive of a Super WalMart and a 15 minute drive of a level 2 trauma hospital, I'd probably label it as "suburban". But, if the area was a large development of tracts of 2.5-5 acres were in a remote location, distant from neighborhood shopping and other supports, with electricity and telephone the only utilities available (wells and septic systems needed) I'd call it "rural" regardless of the density of development.

Your questions are good ones. It's probably prudent to be ready with an answer if the question comes up from someone having nothing better to do that quibble about your application of nebulous guidelines. There are probably some appraisers who include their meaning of those terms in one of their addenda that nobody ever reads - I haven't done so yet, and it hasn't been a problem, yet.

The worst problem I've ever had with a neighborhood description was when I described a lightly developed area with some agricultural use and great view as "bucolic" - the reviewer rejected the property because "we don't lend in that sort of area". (And "they" wonder why appraisers retreat to "typical" and "average".)
 
Urban: General lot size has Mowing time (walking mower) < 20 minutes
Suburban: General lot size has Mowing time (walking mower) between 20 and 40 minutes
Rural: Anything that is not either urban or suburban

I am kind of joking, kind of not joking. If you know your market, you can tell which areas are urban (city core), which areas are suburban (attached to city core), and which areas are rural (90% republican voting with shotgun at the ready if appraiser does not make value).

I am reviewing an appraisal in Eagar, Arizona. It is in the middle of nowhere close by the NM border off US 60. The town has about 5000 people in it, and the subject property is in the town core with paved streets, municipal services, etc. You could probably make an argument for any of the three choices. Ultimately it is the appraiser's decision, the reviewer's to tell him to adjust, and the appraiser's decision to tell the reviewer to stick it.
 
Urban: General lot size has Mowing time (walking mower) < 20 minutes
Suburban: General lot size has Mowing time (walking mower) between 20 and 40 minutes
Rural: Anything that is not either urban or suburban

I am kind of joking, kind of not joking. If you know your market, you can tell which areas are urban (city core), which areas are suburban (attached to city core), and which areas are rural (90% republican voting with shotgun at the ready if appraiser does not make value).

I am reviewing an appraisal in Eagar, Arizona. It is in the middle of nowhere close by the NM border off US 60. The town has about 5000 people in it, and the subject property is in the town core with paved streets, municipal services, etc. You could probably make an argument for any of the three choices. Ultimately it is the appraiser's decision, the reviewer's to tell him to adjust, and the appraiser's decision to tell the reviewer to stick it.

You could ask what those people in town do for a living. Is it forestry, agriculture, wildlife management, government employee, etc. versus manufacturing, transportation, retail, wholesale, warehouse, consulting, etc.
 
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