Realtor Takes Advantage of 9/11 WTC NYFD Widow !!!

[Joe Birrell (NY)]

I did the original appraisal when it was new construction less than two years ago. I have the plans on the subject. There is no way that interior improvements (if any where added) that could have boosted the price to $550,000. The highest end of the market is $360,000. I was operating within the parameters of the definition of Market Value, the Realtor was obviously NOT. I never had the chance to ask her for a CMA, which would have proved interesting. There was NO pre-determination of a specific value. There is an old saying "we may not know what the property is worth, but we know what it is not worth" and it's not worth $550,000. She was essentially told up front that there is no such thing as a $550,000
home in this neighborhood, if that's a violation of USPAP, then I stand guilty as charged, and the USPAP police can be unleashed.

Regardless of the advocate issue, the Code of Ethics at least implies some basic morality in your business dealings (otherwise why have a Code of Ethics). The highest price possible for the seller does give the Realtor a free-pass to do whatever they want. In this case, the seller had to be aware of the market having just purchased the subject. As to the buyer having no representation, your right, she should have. By the end of the scenario, it seems she would not have listened anyway.

We can debate this forever, however, the circumstances of the buyer cannot be avoided. She was a widow of a fireman killed in the WTC, fearful about her future and the future of her small children. She was obvious stressed about the entire scenario. The situation demanded human compassion, not a wheeling and dealing Realtor. She put it out in MLS hoping any sucker would come along. When the widow showed up, she did'nt even flinch.

 

[Pat Butler]

Joe-- if the listing agent were to attempt to convince the seller to sell for less because of the buyer's circumstances, then that listing agent would be blatantly violating the law. If you were the seller, I'm not sure why you would tell the agent to not get the highest price possible.

Let's say that the buyer goes through with this transaction then needs to sell the house in the future. Don't you think she will try and find a realtor who can get the most money for her, considering she overpaid for the house at this time? Or do you think she'll try and find a realtor who will tell her to give the buyer a deal, otherwise that new buyer will have overpaid. I think she will find the realtor who will get her the most amount of money from an able and willing buyer.

You seem to have a problem understanding advocacy or appreciating how a free enterprise system works. A realtor with a client in a transaction is not somehow suppose to make sure the transaction is balanced for everyone- only for their client. Every other profession that practices advocacy does it the same way. Would you hire an attorney who negotiates away your position, or a tax accountant who thinks it is only fair that the IRS gets more of your money?

With respect to the buyer being a widow, our liberal fair housing laws makesit illegal to consider anyone's marital status. So a realtor complying with fair housing laws would not even ask the buyer about her situation nor communicate her marital status to the seller if they did know. And it would be really naive of the buyer to communicate that situation to a realtor who is not representing her.

Your are right that the realtor couldn't care less about market value if she can get more than market value for her seller. You said, "The highest price possible for the seller does (did you mean "doesn't") give the Realtor a free-pass to do whatever they want." You need to understand that the realtor just advises the client, yet it is the client themselves who ultimately makes those sorts of decisions. You want to blame the realtor for a buyer who has chosen no representation nor listened to a family member, nor followed through on ordering an appraisal. And you want to blame the realtor for the list price of her client's house even though that list price is ultimately decided by the seller.

This whole situation does appear unusual in that someone would supposedly list a house nearly $200K more than what it is worth yet still find a cash buyer. Most any realtor would be embarassed to list a house so high and wouldn't want to waste their time with a listing if they knew it wouldn't sell.

I understand your frustration with some realtors. But in my experience I've seen more situations occur as a result of ignorant incompetance of a realtor rather than some callous disregard for the law. I stopped brokerage activities maybe 4 or 5 years ago but was involved in tens of millions of dollars of transactions. I also worked at 4 or 5 different offices over a 20-year period. I just never saw agents who knowingly and blatantly wanted to rip someone off like you would suggest, but rather, saw many who harmed their clients out of ignorance. Realtors just don't make money unless they list houses at reasonable prices and get them sold.

 

[Richard Carlsen]

Among our rights is the right to make stupid mistakes and decisions. Don't blame the Realtor. His obligation is to get the most he can for his client, the Seller. If he ran around telling people the house was not worth the asking price, he would have been in violation of his fiduciary responsibility to his client, the Seller. That could get his license into trouble.

The only way he could get into trouble over the selling price of a house is if he lied about it (misrepresentation) or was acting as a Buyers Agent and failed to tell the buyer when asked about value.

This is a sad story but I don't think the Realtor is to blame. The Buyer is a big person and regardless of her circumstances, capable and responsible for her own decisions.

In this victim-oriented society, it is all too easy to put the blame on others. Despite you best efforts and those of her father, she made her decision. Therefore, it is her responsibility, not the Realtor's.

 

[Joe Birrell (NY)]

Yea, yea, yea. OK, you guys have worn me down. The Realtor in this case is a really nice, honest, hard working, straight shooter, who upheld all her responsibilities while following the entire Code of Ethics. As a result she priced the home fairly and accurately, and got the owner $200,000 more than it was worth. I guess the widow deserved it.

If you are ever in the market for a home in this area, stop by. I'll ask her to find you one.

 

[David C. Johnson]

Joe:

I'd have to say, based solely on your revelations about the situation, I havta wonder if we may be witnessing another successful graduate in action from the Leona Helmsley Charm & Real Estate School.

Somehow just don't seem none too Kosher to me. Probably best no NYC Fire Fighter's wives catch wind of it.
_____________

Greg Goodpasture:

<span style='color:darkred'>"As some of you know, I try to shy away from controversy,
but in these circumstances I find myself more in agreement
with Pat. I know this probably depresses Pat, somewhat,
but what can I say?"</span>

Good to see you back and in already in real good fighting form (sorta) -- I'm emailing Austin right now to let him know your back!

dcj

 

[Joe Birrell (NY)]

Joe:

I'd have to say, based solely on your revelations about the situation, I havta wonder if we may be witnessing another successful graduate in action from the Leona Helmsley Charm & Real Estate School.

Somehow just don't seem none too Kosher to me. Probably best no NYC Fire Fighter's wives catch wind of it.
_____________

Greg Goodpasture:

<span style='color:darkred'>"As some of you know, I try to shy away from controversy,
but in these circumstances I find myself more in agreement
with Pat. I know this probably depresses Pat, somewhat,
but what can I say?"</span>

Good to see you back and in already in real good fighting form -- I'm emailing Austin right now to let him know your back!

dcj


Greg:

I didn't think of it until I read your posting. Maybe I'll let a few of the guys at the local firehouse know about this one.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Maybe I'll let a few of the guys at the local firehouse know about this one.

I like that idea. Even though I understand the above justifications, it just leaves such a sour taste about Realtors and I hate that. Why should any buyer use a Realtor when stories like this happen? Yes, the buyer should have listened to her father and is responsible for her own actions. BUT, what about the morality of this issue? Even though it's legal, it sure is not moral. Very, very sad.

 

[Farm Gal]

Umm I am all for letting the crooks of the world get their just deserts... but I reccomend NOT setting the brethren on the realtor... blood is such an ugly sight and the poor(er) widow apears to have made her choice contractualy, don't take her shattered ego down any further without just cause...

Telling the guys that there is a widow movin in and that they should welcome her to the nighborhood that's one thing:

IF she has buyers remose later, then what they DO about it later is on their conscience, not yours for adding fuel to a fire.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Lee Ann, you are the voice of reason and much appreciated. Of course, you are right.

 

[Farm Gal]

:lol: :lol: ME REASONABLE :lol: :lol:

Any bets they show up with weinies and marshmallows if the Realtors house catches fire??? :twisted:

I's just pragmatic :wink: