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Registered Trainees on HUD Assignments?

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BigBlueGA

Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
What is HUD's position on trainees working on FHA appraisal assignments under an appraiser on the HUD list? Can this be done? Under what circumstances? What disclosures or signatures need to be included in the appraisal?
 

larryhaskell

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Nevada
Brandon:

I checked with HUD one time and they told me a trainee or intern could not sign. I believe you can report them as making a significant contribution so they can get FHA experience. Of course, with HUD, their response may change from day to day. You can always check again with REAC, rules may have changed. Phone # 888.245.4860.
 

Leon Stewart

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
HUD will experience a lot of problems in the future with a shortage of HUD Appraisers since many of the lenders are opting out of doing HUD Work since HUD is holding the Appraiser responsible for everything about the process, including the loan itself. So unless an Appraiser is a high volume HUD Appraiser it's best to leave HUD Work alone, it's cheaper in the long run.

leon
 

EDWARD BERRY

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
LEON,

COULD yould tell me what the difference is in the "new" HUD apraisals other that now you must state in writting what you did--as compared to the old requirements.

What extra liability is there.

I am not trying to be smart, and am hearing your conclusions from many other appraisers.

We get paid about $75 extra to fill out 5 extra pages of x blocks over the old system.

No one in our area has been sued(some should)

What is the big deal of properly inspecting- scratch that- observing the property and stating what one found.

I am not complaing-just gives me more work-am I missing something.

Backward ed in Arkansas
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Hey backward Ed (an I know you really aren't :wink: ):

The new issue is that HUD is keeping an appraiser watch on the default rate of loans on which result from FHA appraisals... the problem with this is of course that a competent appraisal by a competent appraiser has nothing to do with whether or not a buyer pays his or her bills... :roll:

The second (older) issue is that the fairly new "Notice to the Homebuyer" on which the VC items are summarized has been identified in my presence by HUD officials as the direct line from the homebuyer into MY wallet. (off the record of course and when challenged on this matter watch how fast the eyes shift to see who else is within hearing distance of the reply :lol: :roll: ) Even their legal people admit this and guess what: they do NOT care about us the appraisers... you got E&O right? No problem. :evil:

Because in what is identified as an inspection, was publicly proclaimed as part of the gov'ment looking out for the homebuyer (on public TV no less) if there is any item of ANY significance missed by the 'inspector / appraiser" the homebuyer just might have a case! Judge and jury not being privy to all this happy horsepucky that we attempt to get across that we din't DO no Home Inspection...

So write your disclaimer's carefully so that you KNOW the homeowner gets a copy...LIKE IN BOLD AND CAPS ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE HOMEBUYERS ADDENDUM

But seriously this is why some folks are bowing out of the FHA field...
And the fact that The 4150 leaves far too much open to individual interpretation 8O : the grey areas under "general health and safety" and the number of items on which we are to make judgement calls is rediculous: and given the former 'everybody knows' items that you were told or learned due to local training classes, (now abandoned) seems like NO one knows anymore what should be required!


Personaly I like doing them, but I am NOT and never will be a hoem inspector: stone amazing how many calls I get that an angry agent says the HOME INSPECTOR DIDN'T MENTION THAT!!! (which can be interpreted as: HOW DARE YOU SCREW UP MY DEAL!") :wink:
 

BenLuby

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Georgia
Lee Ann,
Another good point from you. Now, here is a bit of speculation on the issue of HUD. They may not be as dumb as we think.
Think of this. You are an FHA appraiser. You work for lender A for five years, a reputable company, they want honest appraisals at fair market value to protect their investors. Their lenders are in it for the long haul, and want to protect their appraiser to a degree.
They carry a low default rate because they properly screen their applicants before ordering the appraisal.
Now along comes Breaka leg mortgage, offering you the chance to be their appraiser.
You immediately pull up the FHA page and find out they have a large default rate, and that, by taking their work, you know you are risking your qualifications as an FHA appraiser. So, you tell them no thanks, you have enough to do already, but you appreciate the offer.
They go and find another appraiser who happily rolls the numbers and gives them what they want for their treasure chest fee.
FHA then sees the appraiser hit the default alert level. Now, he/she loses their FHA income. The lender is back to hunting for another chump.
But you are still doing FHA work, and still staying in the safety zone.
FHA is actually hitting the appraisers in the pocket.
And making it necessary for any FHA appraiser that wants to do their work to start being pickier about who they do the work for, thereby putting a dent in the predatory lending arena.
It is a low-budget, under handed tactic, and, unfortunately, smart as can be. Now they can legally get rid of bad appraisers, and kick the snot out of the bad lenders, and still get to blame the appraisers.
They keep their political clout with the banking industry, and we get stuck policing our clients to protect our incomes. So, who is at fault when an appraiser refuses to do a lenders work? They will blame the appraiser, and if they do accept the work, then they get one step closer to the FHA getting to boot them.
It is actually a very smart plan. And they don't really care that they are kicking the appraisers in the chops. Honestly, the only ones who will run from the work are the ones who are nervous about their ability. The ones who know they are good at it will simply be very picky about who they do work for, and will demand payment in kind.
I still intend to get my FHA number when I get my license. I'll just be picky about who I work for. And, with all the people jumping ship, there should be plenty of good clients to work for.
Good luck.
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
:lol:

Good analysis Ben,

However given the current 'qualifications required' in order to become an FHA appraiser: 2 years pass a overly simplistic test, and you is a 'graduated official FHA appraiseler' I suspect that there will be an endless supply of folks for Slimeball Mortgage Inc to hire in ANY of their incarnations.

Slimeball more-gage ll, Slime Ball Mortgage, LLC etc etc etc..

but it's cheaper than hiring competent reviews :roll:
 

BenLuby

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Georgia
That is correct, Lee Ann. And they don't care what the fee is going to go to for an FHA, since the buyer eats that anyway. It will be a slow process, but in the end, I think that the results will be better for the profession as a whole.
I intend to be just as diligent and nitpicky on FHA's as I am on conventional. My mentor keeps telling me I am the most Anal retentive person he has ever seen taking notes on a site, but he will also tell anyone that you could sit down, not even talk to me, and just using my notes do a good appraisal.
I tend to believe that memory is a back-up, notes are the hardcopy.
He can remember houses we did a year ago. I'm still doing the one by the mall.
 

Leon Stewart

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Edward Berry:

Lee Ann's Post (Below) does a good job of stating my position, and I'll just let her comments stand. But keep one thing in mind, an Appraiser is not a Home Inspector, nor is that a requirement for his/her License. The Idea that the Appraiser is only responsible for items that they are aware of is a "Red Herring", and lawyers will not be conserned with this factor while filing a law suit, their concern is whether you have E & O, and as you know most E & O Insurance Companies will usually settle a case rather than go to trial, consequently leaving the Appraiser at a guilty status.

If you saw the HUD Ad's last year which identified the Appraiser as an Inspector, that in itself planted in the borrowers mind that the Appraiser is responsible for the condition of their dwelling, and as you know, the condition of the Furnace, the Water Tank, the Electrical System, the Plumbing, etc., can only be verified by a person Licensed in those specialities. There are some Appraisers who might know something about those items, but that is not a part of their job, nor do they have the expertise to make an intelligent evaluation on those items.

leon
 

EDWARD BERRY

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
LEON,

I respect your opinon, however my question is:

What is wrong with the appraiser answering about 4 pages of almost yes and no items about the property that is so hard or put you at risk.

For thost that were on the original panel and had about 16 hours per year eduction on the procedures, it is a piece of cake.

I do all the FHA repos in a 2 County area and see BAD, BAD stuff-but to my knowledge not one appraiser has been cited.

My opinion is that the repo stats cannot "hang" an appraiser. For instance one lady did 3 appraisals in one County and 1 went belly up. (33%)

She did 20 in another County with only 1 repo(10%) for a total of 8 %.

That is the two County rate. So what judge is going to hang her.

Good appraisers will not be hung.

Crazy in Arkansas
 
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