REO sales and "Market Value"

[Randolph Kinney]

I did have to chuckle to see you avoid my post 216 with more specific data and chuckle a bit harder when I saw that you arrowed Mpls at 39.9% and avoided the fact that it is is Higher than the National rate as well as higher than 4 of the 6 major cities in California.

Yeah and in post 214 You had nothing to say about the foreclosure and delinquency rate of Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington being below the national average. I laughed at you for trying to convince anyone that your area is under great stress. You don't know anything about high foreclosure rates.

The underwater mortgages are a potential for foreclosure. It depends how much stress your area has, such as the unemployment rate, which indicates you don't have the stress as the national average and certainly not California, second highest in the nation.

I do hope that you realize that the age thing is in fun. You are slightly? older than me and I hold much respect for my elders. Not to say you're old...just older.

Yeah, well we can tell that you don't have the experience to know certain things. :laugh:

 

[residentialguy]

As you can see, the boy in Minnesota does not have a problem with underwater mortgages.

California will be having distressed sales for more than 10 years.

Stop trying to over complicate my response which was to address your post above. I showed you proof that you were incorrect. Looks like old dogs can be wrong. Sorry. Hopefully you can learn a new trick...we'll see.

I laughed at you for trying to convince anyone that your area is under great stress. You don't know anything about high foreclosure rates.

Randolph, these are averages over large areas. There are within those areas, there have been neighborhoods of near 100% distressed sales that I have appraised in. So yes, I do know something about high foreclosure rates.

 

[gregb]

Same or different results with this tool?
[url]http://www.huduser.org/REO/REO.html[/URL]

 

[Randolph Kinney]

Randolph, these are averages over large areas. There are within those areas, there have been neighborhoods of near 100% distressed sales that I have appraised in. So yes, I do know something about high foreclosure rates.

Okay BOY, now is your chance, show those neighborhoods with near 100% distressed sales along with data source.

 

[residentialguy]

That's a research item that takes much more detailed research. You'll have to pay me for that. I'm not retired and don't have the time, so you'll have to take me at my word.

 

[DMZwerg]

Researching a bit of history concerning FIRREA, a little white paper published by the Appraisal Institue, quoting:

199
200 The failure of USPAP to treat Market Value as a special concept has lead to a proliferation of
201 Market Value definitions, dilution of the Market Value concept, and great confusion in the
202 marketplace. For example, Market Value under FIRREA is not identical to Market Value in the

That demonstrates one place where (and why) I don't always agree with the AI.

The definition of value used in any particular report needs to be flexible enough to handle the myriad of possible Intended Uses of the report and needs to be discussed and agreed upon with the client as part of Scope of Work. Modifying Tolkien a bit "One definition to rule them all, one definition to find them, one definition to bring them all and under FIRREA bind them" is neither a wise thing to do nor even a valid concept as it was lead to greater limiting of appraisals and a greater warping of the FIRREA Definition of Market Value as it is forced to be the round hole even square pegs are attempted to be driven through. Different groups need to have flexibility in setting and agreeing on definitions as, as others have said, it is not just one market even though in many places it may be one larger marketplace. The problem I see is with the name of the definition ... aka the Definition of Market Value (which too many take as THE Definition of Market Value rather than a definition of market value). The FIRREA DoMV was adopted to suit a VERY specific need and set of needs of the lending industry at that time. Times have changed but it is not the FIRREA DoMV that needs to change but rather the belief that one form with all its constraints including that said definition is sufficient to meet ALL the myriad needs of even just the lending industry, let alone every industry in existence. In other words for Freddie/Fannie it may be time for an additional form with different definitions on it that will allow for a clearer understanding of exactly what value is being appraised (aka, Disposition, Liquidation or such). That way maybe we can get back to appraising and get away from all this debate.

 

[DMZwerg]

Randolph, I agree. The authorities (if ther are any), need to specify exactly what should be included, or excluded in a MV def purpose appraisal, so that all appraisers are on the same page.

No, that is the job of the CLIENT and the APPRAISER as defined as part of SOW in USPAP. "The Authorities" have already stated it is up to us appraisers and our respective clients to specify exactly what Def of MV is being used and where it is from, etc. Why should "The Authorities" have to dictate that all appraisals, no matter the intended use and intended users, HAVE to follow one less than totally flexible definition?

 

[DMZwerg]

Your last statement is ridiculous, and has norhing to do with USPAP. We have to appraise to the definition on the cert of the form.

You don't have to use a form.

You can write a narrative report, give an oral report, or even write a report on a napkin if you desire AND THE CLIENT AGREES.

If the client requests a particular form with a preset DoMV then if you, as the appraiser, come to understand that the definition is not appropriate then you need to contact the client and between the two of you determine what steps to take next (decline/cancel due to unacceptable assignment condition, use a different form or type of report, or even look at UA or HC, as appropriate).

An appraisal report is a report on an appraisal, thus the form is only a summary report of the appraisal, and not all appraisals have to be reported via some form.

 

[Terraform]

Okay BOY.

Not acceptable. "Shivers"

 

[Randolph Kinney]

That's a research item that takes much more detailed research. You'll have to pay me for that. I'm not retired and don't have the time, so you'll have to take me at my word.

Making the claim of neighborhoods of near 100% distressed sales is just as good as doing the research?

Oaky male child, too much for you to substantiate that claim, I understand.