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REO's as comparables to non-REO

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I agree.
And, presumably, if there were no variances in value as the market sees them, there would be no adjustment. The ideal comparable. :)


Right! :beer:

...although, the ideal comp would be the same house with a traditional sale. :icon_mrgreen:
 
Right! :beer:

...although, the ideal comp would be the same house with a traditional sale. :icon_mrgreen:

Of course going back 3 years and 30 miles out is also a good practice should the perfect sales not be found. :)
 
A static definition of "market" value defies logic

Thank you.

I see some here inventing their own caveats to MV, such as it represents a "static " definition. Good luck trying to defend an appraisal based on that. The word "static" or "static defintion of MV ", or any variation thereof, occurs nowhere in USPAP, Fannie, or in any credible appariasal guidelines. And nowhere do the standards even imply that, you made it up and it sounds important/ professional, but it is in fact based on an assumption that is in direct opposition to developing a market value per appraisal guidelines.

How about the static definition of Newton's Laws of motion?
Now think about the definition of 1G (as in gravity; generally considered 9.80665m/s^2 or roughly 32ft/sec^2 ).
Now think of what fun it would be to have to calculate exactly what the local gravity is at the specific latitude, longitude, and altitude above see level you are currently at because the standard definition is not exact (actually, gravity varies depending on those exact factors), and to be specific even the pull of the moon could be factored in.

[sarcasm]Yeah, it is definitely a good idea to define things as applicable to the smallest local area rather than have some more generic definition out there that is logical[/sarcasm]

The terms "logical" and "local" are also not in the FNMA definition, so we should burn at the stake any definition of market value that does not include them! :rof:

In other words it is your assumption that is illogical as it does not take into account ANY factor except that which you wish it to. You don't like the standard meaning of "typically motivated" so poof, you change it to mean the mean; don't want to think about seller motivations, "poof" wish that away; don't comprehend "undue stimulus", darn that away as well be either stating "that isn't what it means", "that isn't important", or even "the whole market is under undue stimulus" without ever considering what you are saying or the ramifications; don't what to be bothered about analyzing whether or not buyers or sellers are acting prudently or in their own best interests then just will-o that away as well; since "reasonable exposure time" is never hard coded in anything you have looked at you just ignore FNMA culture and writing on that and ignore the fact that certain "comps" you want to use were priced to sell within that time frame; don't want to be bothered about "special or creative financing", "sales concessions" or the term "granted by anyone associated with" then those are just meaningless drivel not applicable to any "comps" you want to use; heck, since we have a definition of market value in USPAP we should just be able to use that and thus will-away any other definition and ignore any parts we don;t want to follow especially the part about "its authority" because it is easier to do what we want instead of doing it the right way.


Don't believe you are doing what I said? Then, on the very next appraisal you do where you have exactly one traditional sale as a comp and all the rest are REOs, apply a negative adjustment to the traditional sale to bring it in line with your new vision of market value because it is not "typical" for the market. It's one way or the other, not interpreting the definition both ways simultaneously.

So, if you don't want to follow the technical definition of market value as written when doing a summary report on a FNMA form with a predefined set of definitions and limiting conditions then by all means, do whatever you please. Just don't go around trying to tell people they are wrong just because you decided to alter how you interpret the definition.
 
Of course going back 3 years and 30 miles out is also a good practice should the perfect sales not be found. :)

Perfect sale my <censored>!
In some markets you may have to do that to find ANY sales even remotely comparable (REO, traditional, or anything in between).

If you have never had to consider searching that far back or that far out to find 3 sales then maybe you really haven't had a complex residential assignment yet? :rof:
 
Of course going back 3 years and 30 miles out is also a good practice should the perfect sales not be found. :)
What ever is needed to get the probable price is what is needed. Each case is different. Wasn't it you that said lack of sales does not mean lack of value? Treat it with the same diligence you would any other line item adjustment that your nearby recent comps lacked. Washing your hand of the work is not due diligence - that's what skippy does. I don't think that's what you do, but than again, if it quacks like a skippy...:new_all_coholic:
 
Now if you would only stop moving the definition to fit what's the most prominent sale of the month, we'd be good. The market changes but our measure of the sale defined does not.

Actually an appraiser can use a different definition of market value for every appraisal if they wish, unless they are doing an appraisal for a client where the definition is pre-set, such as federally regulated transactions like FNMA forms. :rof:


Changing market will always be reflected on a fair sale. Many factors will pull up, down and sideways. Static definition does not stop this and it will be reflected on market sales.

Yep. Also true.
It may mean you have no actually comparable SFR sales in a particular time frame, such as in some rural areas where sales are few and far between or in areas where all the sales are REOs or short sales. Only difference is that in the latter you have better proxies than turning to land sales and the cost approach to determine values on 100+ year old homes.
 
If I follow you, what you are saying is this:
If the subject is an REO, it will sell for $270k.
If the subject is a non-REO, it will sell for $300k.
Therefore, those are two values for the same subject using the same definition of value, and as a consequence, there must be a mistake because the same definition for the same subject is concluding two different results.

Do I understand the position correctly? :)

I would say the appraiser may have just used two different definitions of market value, one appraising some "REO Value" and the other "(Fair) Market Value". If the appraisal was a narrative or such then the former may well be exactly what the client want, but if the definition "is from regulations published by federal regulatory agencies pursuant to Title XI of the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act (FIRREA) of 1989 between July 5, 1990, and August 24, 1990, by the Federal Reserve System (FRS), National Credit Union Administration (NCUA), Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS), and the Office of Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). This definition is also referenced in regulations jointly published by the OCC, OTS, FRS, and FDIC on June 7, 1994, and in the Interagency Appraisal and Evaluation Guidelines, dated October 27, 1994" then the appraiser should probably make certain they are following the pre-defined definition correctly.

:new_all_coholic:
 
Are you saying that if a subject can have two market values; one based on it being an REO and the other based on it not being an REO, then there must be something wrong with the analysis (and probably the comparable selection) since the subject should have only one market value, REO or not REO?

A subject could have multiple (4+ at least) different market values, all depending on what exact definition of market value is used.

Check the REO addendum for four of them. I am betting many CGs and residential appraisers could point out that once things like future values, investment values, and such are included that number could balloon much higher. I mean we didn't even touch on insurable value, assessment value, and so and so and so forth. :beer:
 
I was recently in a discussion with a peer who said that the value of the subject (REO) shouldn't be any different if the status was non-REO and if one is appraising it using the definition of market value.
Her position was that the REO status of the subject has no impact on the market value under any circumstances.
I very much disagreed with her position.

:new_smile-l:

Why would you?

Market value is based on what value you are appraising based on the definition of market value used (and thus the comps), NOT what the subject is. CONDITION of the subject affects the value as it related to whether the appraisal is made "as is" or "subject to" (Hypothetical "as repaired", Hypothetical "as constructed" or even an Extraordinary Assumption").

Maybe you did not comprehend her point nor enlighten her as to the finer points of WHAT definition of WHAT market value? :icon_mrgreen:
 
There is no such thing as a "traditional fair sale" in appraising. You are making that defintion up.

The terms "fair sale" and "fair market value" were common in usage before FIRREA. No need to make them up.

Traditional sale is used on this forum a lot because too many appraisers can not seem to comprehend the difference between REOs/short/estate/RELO and sales that do not meet any of those specific definitions, especially since the traditional usage of the term "fair sale" has fallen out of fashion except in one place ... the standard definition of market value used by FNMA and such under FIRREA. See link, definition (g) and the 5 points clarifying beneath it.
 
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