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Republican/Obama Tax Plan--Do self-employed get a 2% reduction?

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Elliott

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Apr 23, 2002
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Certified General Appraiser
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Does anyone know how the plan affects 'self-employed' do we get
to reduce our 6.2% + 6.2% contribution to social security to 4.2% and
6.2%? Of course it would reduce our net toward contribution and
consequently that hefty 15 cents on the dollar for income above $50,000.


From SS Admin:
"Step 4- We multiply your average adjusted monthly earnings by percentages in a formula that is set out by law. If you turn 62 in 2007, that formula adds together:

90 percent of your first $680 of average monthly earnings,

32 percent of the amount between $680 and $4,100, and

15 percent of everything over $4,100 to give you your full retirement benefit amount."
 
SOBs

There are about 10 million self-employed.
 
The 5% who make over 1M get the tax break, the rest of us pick up the check.

I think the gist of it was to reward those whom hired unemployed people in 2010.

Tax and spend....tax and spend, tax the middle class of US dollars and spend on the rich with loaned Chinese Dollars obtained from selling the Chinese our US Treasury bonds, which then becomes public debt.

Therefore, we not only get taxed on one end but debt to China on the other end for selling tax breaks to the rich. Perhaps that is why we are called the "middle class" - we get burned from both ends and we are in the middle.

Although, I'm certainly not for a utopian even tax rate for all income, there is substantial economic evidence indicating that tax breaks to the rich are much less effective at stimulating a weak economy than giving it to the middle class that will be sure to spend the additional income, rather than invest it overseas or put it in a savings account, etc.

I believe the opinion of economists that we need to spend right now is right and if that takes the form of a tax break, then it is appropriate, but it should be spent wisely for the maximum effect.

We will never get out of this rut unless we can overcome three fundamental problems that have been increasing over time.

1) Technology is removing the need for humans to "do things" for which we can obtain income. Jobless recoveries are becoming the norm now. The other aspect to this is the demographic is becoming older and older and less people can work due to an aging population.

2) With less humans doing things, there is less demand for product and more demand for debt to support the unemployed, underemployed and due to the middle class lowering wages (buying power).

3) With global competition, there is only so much PIE that we can export to and it appears that other countries are beating us out. China's control of currency is turning the buyer to them, even if it is a US company that has a subsidiary in China. The bottom line is, we are becoming a nation of unemployed or underemployed poor without work and a small elite class that is able to do commerce internationally to the few that can still buy things and the middle is disappearing. To be competitive globally, their employees will be in other countries or here working for a fraction of a living.

Our infrastructure, roads, bridges, etc, are becoming worn out and falling in disrepair. We are losing the battle day by day and have been for decades.

Oh...I'm sorry....did I digress........
 
prasecat said, "With global competition, there is only so much PIE that we can export to and it appears that other countries are beating us out."

I've never been a zero sum game or the pie can't get bigger person.

Thomas Friedman of The World is Flat fame, was on Meet the Press last Sunday and
he pointed out the problem is how to generate employment for high school graduates
in the US who are paid 5 times what China pays their workers. We've got a superior
infrastructure. I just want some adults to run the country.

Bama,

"0.26% of returns – a total of just 350,000 households out of a total of 138 million – had an AGI of $1,000,000 of more."

http://www.thesoapboxers.com/how-many-people-make-more-than-250000-per-year/

I just want that extra 2% of disposable pre-tax income. Just think, next year,
self-employed appraisers will have more overhead than an AMC employee
appraiser. And the AMC knows they are getting a break and appraisers are
easily disposable.
 
....... tax the middle class of US dollars and spend on the rich with loaned Chinese Dollars obtained from selling the Chinese our US Treasury bonds, which then becomes public debt.

Therefore, we not only get taxed on one end but debt to China on the other end for selling tax breaks to the rich. Perhaps that is why we are called the "middle class" - we get burned from both ends and we are in the middle..........

So a guy starts a business, takes the risk and succeeds and pays taxes. Then when he makes a lot of money you want to confiscate the money?

I hear all of this talk about how we are they (the rich) aren't paying their share and they are getting a tax break.

First of all, the rich already pay taxes in the highest tax bracket. If someone making an adjusted income of $1,000,000 is paying $350,000 in taxes and the guy making an adjusted income of $100,000 is paying $28,000 and the guy making $45,000 is paying NO federal income tax who is the guy who is contributing the most to the federal government?

At what point in time do you stop taking away the initiative to be successful? I have a friend who makes about $400,000-$600,000/year. He owns a manufacturing business employing about 20 people. He could hire but he won't because of the rising tax rates, health care obligations and what he says is "socialism". He is not confident about the economy and what is happening to the country.

People who make a lot of money typically are the ones who hire, start new businesses and take risks. He bought two new Pizza franchises this year hiring 30 people. One is making money. The other one he closed losing $75,000. He is still paying rent and will for another 2 years but it is cheaper to pay rent than to operate the business.

I find it offensive that some of the American public is OK with confiscating wealth to pay for a bloated government and entitlements. We are entitled to the "pursuit of happiness" we are not guaranteed it. Redistribution of wealth will crush the economy.
 
In regard to the tax break for the wealthy continuing, Obama was wanting to only continue it for households earning less than 250k and letting the break for higher incomes expire.

I found this from fact check org:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_percentage_of_the_us_population_makes.html

The tax break would otherwise been phased out for about 2% to 3.1% of households.

I'm all for a tax break for companies that hire american workers but the matter of compensation is another problem and is a complex one, partially tied to the economy, partially tied to the power given the employer either by law and/or competition.

Economics increasingly fascinates me. If I may muse on the subject from a "non-economist" point of view using an extrapolation strategy I learned in physics to test the validity of theories and concepts. I'll reduce it to a very simple equation:

If an economy is made up of two people (a world of two people, A & B) and each has one dollar to create a simple example: PersonA can say to the other, if you change the oil in my car, I'll pay you 1 dollar. PersonB has such a skill so he changes the oil for a dollar and the now only personB has two dollars and the other has no money. The guy with two dollars (personB) says, hey, I hear you are a doctor and I broke my leg changing your oil, how much will it cost me. PersonA says, I can do that for 10 dollars. PersonB says, hey, I only have 2 dollars. PersonA says, Ok, I'll do it for two dollars and PersonB will gladly pay all his money since fixing his broken leg is absolutely necessary and not discretionary. Now personA has two dollars and personB has no money. You can introduce debt into the equation, but that only delays the inevitable, that there is only so much wealth in the world (in the subject world, 2 dollars). It seems to me, wealth is when you have more money left over after paying for survival. Some people in the economy (personA in the example) have more power to command more in exchange for their services due to their position in the market or to how necessary their services are to survival.

Its not total dollars that counts but how many dollars among how many people. As the world population swells, total dollars has to increase; however, what a dollar represents is worth proportionately less. I don't fully understand it at this point, but it seems to me capitalism (the best thing humans have found yet) is fundamentally flawed. That "relatively" wealthy people (with lots of discretionary income) can only exist when there are those able to command more for what they do relative to other individuals. So everyone being wealthy is not achievable, and it would remove the entrapreneurial incentive, hence the failure of communism.

China is not communism but a hybrid of central government and capitalism. They solve their problem by isolationism and controlling their currency, this way they can live in a unique economic bubble of their own. So the trick is, it seems we are paying them so little for their product and maintaining our superiority in earning power; however, a person living in China has about 7 times the buying power than we do, so even if we pay them 1/7th the amount of the US dollar, in effect, we are paying them the equivalent buying power.

However, the US was able to exploit others in other countries to obtain more wealth and due to certain labor laws and economic growth, able to have a thriving middle class. Now we are becoming less powerful and able to command our price for what we do, so we are moving toward an "unwealthy nation".

It seems that capitalism alone doesn't have an answer and I wish I knew the answer. An ability to colonize and spread our population to other planets would create new opportunities for growth and inequality. IMHO....
 
I find it offensive that some of the American public is OK with confiscating wealth to pay for a bloated government and entitlements. We are entitled to the "pursuit of happiness" we are not guaranteed it. Redistribution of wealth will crush the economy.

Its not about redistribution of weatlh, its about promoting the middle class explansion.
 
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