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Republican/Obama Tax Plan--Do self-employed get a 2% reduction?

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Its not about redistribution of weatlh, its about promoting the middle class explansion.

No, it is about taking from those who have paid their dues (and taxes already) and stealing that wealth that was achieved by taking risks. Middle class expansion is being crushed by bloated government wasting taxpayer dollars and those who think they are entitled to free stuff.

Why should the guy making an adjusted $200,000 and paying $70,000 in taxes have to pay more when 45% of American families pay absolutely no federal income taxes?

How about a flat tax that is sort of fair. Why do some Americans think they are entitled to other people's money? If you didn't earn it, why should you be entitled to it?

Take away the incentive to be an entrepreneur (with its possible rewards and possible failure) and you ruin the American economy.
 
........How about a flat tax that is sort of fair. Why do some Americans think they are entitled to other people's money? If you didn't earn it, why should you be entitled to it?

Take away the incentive to be an entrepreneur (with its possible rewards and possible failure) and you ruin the American economy.


I dont' disagree fundamentally at all with what you are saying; however, the problem goes far, far deeper. We are fighting for the same piece of money left over. The problem is we need to expand this money without constantly cannabalising the middle class (without which this country would be filled with violence and unrest). The problem is how do you maintain a proper incentive for entrepreneurs while at the same time sustaining a thriving middle class (it isn't by what we are doing now or within the scope of the political will or conversation to solve it).

We shouldn't have to settle for a temporary solution just for one class or for the other - although a proper balance has to be achieved in any event. Even if you took away all entitlements (including for the wealthy), we would eventually still be faced with the same fundamental problems plaguing us. We can't even stop polluting our back yards, how can we solve a problem politically and structurally so complex.

I think it would have made much more sense to concentrate tax cuts on employers of American workers that compensate a wage which at least provides a sufficient income to have a little discretionary income and forget tax breaks or reduce them for everyone else. Maybe then, a large company would move production from China, Thailand, India to us. We need more targeted approaches for such things. At the same time charge domestic companies more tax that ship our jobs and industry overseas. Tax their products when they come into the country. Make it the obvious choice to have business here and make companies pay when they don't that way they don't get the benefits both ways and make the American worker pay.

Right now I have paid off all my debt, but I'm doing much worse now than when I had a lot of it and I was earning money on OPM in the form of real estate. I think there is way too much focus on the debt, the symptom, so perhaps the cure doesn't need to be discussed because its too politically unpopular.
 
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I find it offensive that some of the American public is OK with confiscating wealth to pay for a bloated government and entitlements. We are entitled to the "pursuit of happiness" we are not guaranteed it. Redistribution of wealth will crush the economy.

Agreed.


but

The continued redistrubution of wealth has failed miserably and has crushed the economy already. Trillions of $$ have gone to welfare programs and the "takers" class continues to grow each year.

The class envy tactics of the liberals is taking hold.
 
Agreed.

but

The continued redistrubution of wealth has failed miserably and has crushed the economy already. Trillions of $$ have gone to welfare programs and the "takers" class continues to grow each year.

The class envy tactics of the liberals is taking hold.

I agree as a person of liberal leanings (somewhat left of center), that our nation can only go so far down the road of entitlements before it collapses or greatly stifles innovation, entrepreneureal incentive, etc. However, it should be pointed out that people that retire are "entitled" to the money that was put away for them in the general account designated "Social Security" plus interest (at least equal to a compounding inflation rate). That is not a charitable contribution by the government - it's a entitlement in the form of a "I owe you", just as if the person put that money into a bank account. The problem is, people live longer now after retirement and other "entitlements" have increased.

When the US was young and businesses flourished in the past, it mostly lead to jobs in the US, so there was a direct correlation to incentive and innovation with our economic superiority and standard of living. Increasingly, companies now put their factories in lower cost economies (lower production costs often due to currency exchange rate, lower standard of living, and less entitlements). I know China does not want to be a net "importer" of goods, this would make currency manipulation almost impossible. It's almost impossible to wire US funds into the country and it is costly due to their currency control scheme. Companies normally must put their manufacturing plant in China and hire Chinese workers. This also supports their currency scheme while supporting their economy, since it would be too expensive for most Chinese to pay with internationally devalued yen to buy a car based upon US dollars and raw materials made in much more expensive regimes.

When we purchase/import inexpensive goods from China, it helps lower our inflation rate and gives us more buying power; however, it is a two sided blade and the other side of that reduces our demand for domestic workers. It's like an addiction, it seems to help us in one way, but then certainly hurts us in the end.

It also seems to me that as computers, robotic assembly and even "thinking" computers will in the near future almost eliminate the need for labor intensive "hands-on" manufacturing jobs of all kinds. We are moving more and more to jobs that have a lower profit scheme and demand fewer workers. Population on earth is increasing, jobs decreasing = global economic shrinkage and finally collapse. Computer technology will soon become too complex for the human mind to effectively manage or improve, so this task should be increasingly automated until eventually computers design and manage other computers and we become mostly obsolete in the entire economic system. Remember the news and talk about jobless recoveries during the past two upturns, the second worst than the first.

Anyway, the point is, we can't go back to our past and re-live our glory days as a nation. Times and the nature of the world has changed.

Whatever we do going forward, the equations for success have changed, the challenges are different, global competition is different, the power to destroy entire cities or even countries can now be in the hands of a terrorist, technology helps us be more productive, but productivity is simply another word for (less need for humans to work), people are less healthy now and require more medical care with less productive years as compared to total years lived due to a variety of factors, important resources (such as oil) are approaching depletion, world population is exceeding the earth's ability to process man's waste and decimation, etc, etc.

I'm not much of a historian, outside of my own history on earth, but it seems to me a political system that is built upon the idea of maintaining the status quo is no longer an advantage in our world. It used to be that great poliitcal unrest in other nations prevented investment in those countries, so our nations ability to maintain the status quo gave us a great advantage. In addition, the failed concept of communism evolved largely into a form of capitalism that now makes less "free" nations economically thrive. Now the status quo it is preventing us from making the important changes to adapt, maybe much of our nation of people will be soon sleeping in their cars, unemployed.
 
Received in email - yesterday.

"Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.
"The Patriotic Retirement Plan":

There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

2) They MUST buy a new AMERICAN Car. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed.

It can't get any easier than that!!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members in Congress pay their taxes...

While we're at it, make Congress retire on Social Security and Medicare. I'll bet both programs would be fixed pronto!"
 
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