Sales comparison and listing price!

[MrsBee]

Alright, I'm not trying to be rude...it was more a joke about where your going from here. I'm trying to impart some levity here. How is it rude to ask if you are going to sue somebody? And then you indicate at the end of the post that, you might??? okay, maybe i'm not that far off? chill out. Where else is the end game? Its been said that using listings as comps is atypical. Now what?

You indicate you are going to talk to the bank...you wanted money from them. They loaned it to you. What did they do wrong?

Just so i'm clear, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU SUING ANYBODY. None. I sued a company over $600 once. But, it only cost me $50 to take it to court (and I won :new_smile-l. If you take this to civil court, its going to cost alot. And then the question is...who gets sued? Everybody is going to point the finger at everybody else.

If you or someone else uncovers fraud...that all these people are acting in collusion, get ahold of the attorney general. You'll likely get paid and get rid of some apparently unethical people.

I'm sorry i included my diatribe about people being accountable for their own actions and venting about what would have or wouldn't have happened if the appraiser would have been lower...I was just rambling...its a forum...for discussion. I'm sorry. Again. Sorry.:Emoticon_hug:

And I'm sorry for sullying the name of all appraisers on this board with my comments. Hopefully, with enough groveling, I will be forgiven by at least some.

OK, Dave, here are the answers for you: Now I am more familiar with the appraisal process, rules, and so on. So, I can get it reviewed to find out if it was done right the first time.

More info for you to better understand what I am dealing with:
The sellers agent referred me to this lender. Sellers agent works as realtor at the same office where two more realtors work, and they have been paid for something ($50,000, no idea for what, land, development, personal investment…) from the seller at closing.

One of those two realtors is also a director at the bank/lender, and the appraisal service is a company created by the bank to help with their appraisal needs. Seriously. Same name like the bank, only it ends with “appraisal services”. See my point, to much interest from all of them to close this deal and make the property appraise to meet the loan. Did I have options? Yes. Resources? Yes. Did I want the house? Yes.

But they had the duty to be just and fair, ethical, and follow the rules.
If the home is not appraising to my purchase price how is that good for me? I can’t get a loan, and certainly, I can assure you, in such case I would have liked to negotiate the sale price, maybe even cancel the purchase. OK!

When my mother sold her house, she had a buyer agree to the price, but the appraisal came low. So, what did the buyer do? He asked for lower price! …and he got it…
I think they (everyone involved with interest in my loan) were smart enough to know that I might back out (as I did rip up the agreement once over flooring, then they called to reduce the interest rate), and that wouldn’t sit well with them, now would it?

I know it is very complex, and you may not understand me to full extent, but I do appreciate your opinion, and accept your apology, although you are still implying it’s all about lawsuit. I know that usually it is the lender who is a victim in appraisals, but this is not the case.
I don’t see why would I have to sue if I can prove through review any “error”, “omission“, or deception . When I said I am going to the bank, I meant I am going to negotiate reduction in principal, and I don’t care if it’s only $5,000. What’s right is right.

My only wrongdoing is that back then I can say without shame, that I was stupid, vulnerable, and I trusted them. What has changed? Well, first I got educated, I have matured somewhat, and I now speak pretty fluent English.

In conclusion, I might not have anything here, I am still leaving it open that there is a possibility that the appraiser is not in any wrongdoing, in other words - innocent until proven guilty! However, more, and more, I doubt that…none of the properties used as comps sold within six months prior to appraisal of mine was sold for the prices she has stated, don’t forget, one actually $12,000 less. Same as mine. Actually, one of the comps is still lonely awaiting its first owner .

 

[Truett Neathery]

Responsibilities

I have to ask: When will people take personal responsibility for their actions? I mean...you negotiate your sale...the BANK needs an appraisal for lending purposes (you don't apparently think you need your own)...and you want to go back to the seller and say they took advantage of you because you didn't do your own due diligence? If anything i'd be going after the agent that should have been watching out for you.

But anywho...sounds like an extremely odd situation. These also don't seem to be very large $$ amounts either...does it say they used the listing prices? Or you are assuming that? It doesn't say the actual sale price of the sales in the report?

Usually, RE agents are the employee of the seller. They usually have no responsibility to a buyer. See "Black's Law Dictionary" re: Client vs. Customer. I'm in CA.

 

[Boonders]

Yeah but the agent apparently took dual agency. I'm not an agent, but I'm pretty sure when they do that they still have responsibilities to the buyer.

Good Luck Mrs. Bee.

 

[Hamlet]

Usually, RE agents are the employee of the seller. They usually have no responsibility to a buyer. See "Black's Law Dictionary" re: Client vs. Customer. I'm in CA.

In Ohio the buyer and seller both have rights to representation and the client must receive an agency disclosure to explain this. Dual agents have the same duties to both parties involved.

It appears that the agents involved took advantage of the fact that Mrs Bee was new to the country and wasn't fluent in the language.

I'm sorry this happened to you Mrs. Bee, but you seem to have come a long way in educating yourself. I applaud your efforts to get to the bottom of this and hope it all works out for you.

 

[MrsBee]

Thank you Hamlet! I am posting an update on this issue in few minutes, so I can get more help from you guys!

 

[Webbed Feet]

Double post... removed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

I apologize too! . I hate to be left out.

Mrs. Bee,

First, I want to apologize for how incredibly rude and blunt I have been... Also, I'd like to apologize for Hamlet as she is just so darn nice and posts such thoughtful items that it makes the rest of us look bad... and well... that's just embarrassing! ...

Next, it would help if we clarified a few things I am not sure everyone caught... Correct me if I am incorrect anywhere.

A) Your purchase was three years ago.
B) This is an assumption of mine from reading your posts. You purchased new construction. You used the builder's recommended lender due to the builder, and builder's agents, telling you that you'd get a better deal that way. The recommended lender was a "Mortgage Banker" and one of the real estate agents involved was also an owner / director of the "Mortgage Bank."
C) The mortgage bank, named something like "WeBeFun Mortgage Bank" used an appraisal firm named something like "WeBeFun Appraisal Services."

I had another assumption that you blew out of the water when you posted only three out of eighteen of the project townhomes had been sold. As if now after three years still only three ever sold with you buying one of the three. That goofed me all up. My assumption was that the appraiser involved had used all comparable from out of the exact same project, all by the same builder, until you posted that. Clarify my thoughts on this please.

1) All of the comps used in the appraisal were all out of the same project your unit was and the entire project was all new construction being sold to first time buyers of the units?
2) Only three of the project units ever sold. You are saying the appraiser used units that never sold (closed at title) and used only the listing (asking) prices of three never sold units? I think you've been fairly clear on this, I just want to confirm.

Depending on your answers, it will be interesting how many on the forum will spot right off where this is headed.

 

[MrsBee]

Mrs. Bee,

First, I want to apologize for how incredibly rude and blunt I have been... Also, I'd like to apologize for Hamlet as she is just so darn nice and posts such thoughtful items that it makes the rest of us look bad... and well... that's just embarrassing! ...

Next, it would help if we clarified a few things I am not sure everyone caught... Correct me if I am incorrect anywhere.

A) Your purchase was three years ago. TRUE
B) This is an assumption of mine from reading your posts. You purchased new construction. You used the builder's recommended lender due to the builder, and builder's agents, telling you that you'd get a better deal that way. The recommended lender was a "Mortgage Banker" and one of the real estate agents involved was also an owner / director of the "Mortgage Bank." Real estate agent reccomended this lender, and no, it was not to get a better deal, this lended is most used in this area. I was asked if I already have a lender, that's when he gave me a business card. So, I met with the lender. One of the real estate agents who work with sellers agent is a director at the bank, TRUE.
C) The mortgage bank, named something like "WeBeFun Mortgage Bank" used an appraisal firm named something like "WeBeFun Appraisal Services."TRUE

I had another assumption that you blew out of the water when you posted only three out of eighteen of the project townhomes had been sold. As if now after three years still only three ever sold with you buying one of the three. That goofed me all up. My assumption was that the appraiser involved had used all comparable from out of the exact same project, all by the same builder, until you posted that. Clarify my thoughts on this please. At the time of the appraisal, 3 were sold, but the appraiser used only one of those sales, with wrong sale price, and then she used two active listings as sold properties because the other two that were sold, I assume, she didn't use because they sold up to $17,900 less than the listing price. To this date most of them are sold, 4 still on the market.

1) All of the comps used in the appraisal were all out of the same project your unit was and the entire project was all new construction being sold to first time buyers of the units? YES, TRUE
2) Only three of the project units ever sold. NO! Now, 3 years later, there are 4 vacant, others sold, 2 occupied by builers families.You are saying the appraiser used units that never sold (closed at title) and used only the listing (asking) prices of three never sold units? I think you've been fairly clear on this, I just want to confirm. NO! 2 of the comps that she used were active listings at the time, one was a sale, but she used the listing price as sale price. Now we know why, because she used MLS only as her source, and the realtor failed to report actual sale price, and in fact reported the other two to have been sold 4 months before my appraisal.

Depending on your answers, it will be interesting how many on the forum will spot right off where this is headed.

SHOOT NOW!

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

MrsBee:

The truth is you have no legal recourse towards the appraiser. You were not his/her client and the contract to purchase the property had been signed before he/she was involved. In other words the appraisers actions did not entice you to buy and even if it had you are what is called a third party user. With that said, you most likely have administrative recourse against the appraiser, if indeed they have done what you have said.

Where are you in Michigan? I am a General Certified in the state and work many areas there. Depending on your area I could recommend someone who may be able to help.

 

[MrsBee]

MrsBee:

The truth is you have no legal recourse towards the appraiser. You were not his/her client and the contract to purchase the property had been signed before he/she was involved. In other words the appraisers actions did not entice you to buy and even if it had you are what is called a third party user. With that said, you most likely have administrative recourse against the appraiser, if indeed they have done what you have said.

Where are you in Michigan? I am a General Certified in the state and work many areas there. Depending on your area I could recommend someone who may be able to help.

I am not seeking legal recourse, esp. not on appraisers part, I am seeking the truth be out, the errors be fixed. See, under FreddieMac rules, appraisal is done by a bank, and bank needs to provide one that will not be biased, unlike in my case, they chose one of their own. See the "Bank" used to have "Bank appraisal services LLC." too.
Certain rules that the appraisal broke you can read in my reply on my other thread, you'll see.
See, the bottom line is, had they done the real appraisal, the loan would have never gone through, they would tell me it didn't appraise enough, and I would then have options...hopefully I am clear on that.

What I intent to do is get the bank to stand behind their "mistakes" and see what they can do now that I have discovered all of this. Read more on my last post in my other thread, if interested, you'll get clearer picture. Appreciate your opinion and time to discuss!