Scam Used Forged Appraiser's Signature

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

Yes, Greg, but can you snatch the pebble from my hand! I knew you knew. It would be hard to miss, because it is on the same screen as the other locks in Adobe Acrobat Distiller.

 

[CANative]

hmmm..

If I locked out the printing, I wonder how long it would take them to figure out it was just me having some fun and not a problem with their equipment?

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

The only true security an appraiser has is a copy in the appraiser's possession in the appraiser's office of the appraisal report sent to the client. Then if any questions appears in the future the true correct copy can be compared to whatever someone else has and if there is a difference--then that somebody else made some changes and the appraiser can prove. So yes, use all the security features to the report sent to your client and then make sure you have a copy!

I have the following comment in every report that is emailed to a client---note that is the client's responsibility that a true and correct copy of what they received from me is given to Fannie Mae--so if it is not, it is not my fault!

DIGITAL SIGNATURE:
The software programs used to transfer the report electronically to the client provide digital signature security features for the appraiser signing the report. In the process of transferring the report to the client, the appraiser that has signed (affixed an electronic signature) to this report has ensured that the signature was protected and the appraiser maintained control of the signature. Electronically affixing a signature to a report carries the same level of authenticity and responsibility as an original ink signature on a paper copy report. Per Fannie Mae guidelines in Section 203, a lender may accept an appraisal report that is transmitted electronically. The lender is to represent and warrant to Fannie Mae that the appraisal report was created by the appraiser identified on the appraisal report and that the appraisal report is the complete and unaltered report submitted by the identified appraiser.

 

[Carnivore]

My question is directed to Alan Simmons. I believe you when you say that you can hack into PDF. Adobe has a neat feature that somehow records evertime the file is changed. Something like a chain of custody. Can you hack this to prevent that from happening?


Comment to Jo Ann:

There is an appraiser in Gaston County, NC that would beg to differ with you on having a true copy in your file as a defense. The FBI did not care one bit about his TRUE COPY. Seems that the mortgage monkees had scanned his report with OCR software, changed the numbers and got away with over a hundred grand using there TRUE ORIGINAL.

His only defense which finally saved him was that the monkees forgot to change the percentages for adjustments on the grid page in there TRUE ORIGINAL. Simply, Mark's math added up and the mortgage monkees math did not! Had the mortgage monkees known that this needed to be changed, his(Mark's) butt was toast.

When your sitting in court and the prosecutor holds your true copy appraisal up and it looks just like there TRUE ORIGINAL what will your defense attorney say?

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Yes, the per centages saved him. Your own true copy might not appear to be saving you at first but eventually when all the dust settles--it can save you as it did in your example.

 

[CANative]

The only TRUE SECURITY is your integrity, good reputation and your entire body of work.

I would be comfortable with opening my files to any investigation and let that stand as the evidence.

 

[Steve Owen]

Something that has been discussed as part of this thread is the fact that both digital and hard copy reports can be forged. However, consider this, when I print a hard copy report, I use an embossed stamper over my signature. It has my license number on it. I can remember seeing a banker run his finger over that embossed area to be sure it was authentic.

Now, someone could have an embosser made and still forge my signature and stamp, but that would be expensive and really a lot of trouble. Someone could also just white out, or otherwise change the information on a report I have already signed and embossed, but that would likely leave evidence of the change. It's much easier to forge or change a digital report.

Most of you think that EDI is the best thing that ever happend to residential appraising; I think it is one of the worst. Not only is security an issue, but it also allows for much easier data mining. I only do PDF because the market demands it; if the market gets much more demanding I may quit doing residential appraisals altogether.

 

[Alan Simmons]

Andrew:

I am not sure that I would even worry about it. It might be harder for you to prove that the log had been manipulated than for me to do it.

By the time this would be an issue the splat would have already hit the span anyway. Besides how may clients read the addendum let alone check file information. You would have to prove (to someone else) anyway that the log had been altered? They would have to take your word that you did not manipulate the log to cover your own tracks. Besides you would have to demonstrate that nothing inherent to any of the client’s computers altered the log.

However if I were a hacker (I am not---computer security is just an interest and was a college class last spring) I guess I could cover my tracks. A simple (off the top of my head) way would be to just take the manipulated PDF, alter the clock and save as needed to duplicate the log. Most of the time these logs are, or can be opened, as text flies (or such) anyway. It may be possible to access the log directly. I am sure you can even find freeware that will do this for you.

If I were truly serious I would just talk to one of the kids down at the community college. I just completed a MIS degree. I was surprised by how many classroom conversations started with; “this is illegal so do not do it, but…”

 

[Alan Simmons]

Greg:

“TRUE SECURITY is your integrity.”

I hate to disagree but I think that is only a half-truth. A couple of years ago I learned the hard way what can happen. The powers that be (make a state board look like 3rd grade) decided that they needed a scapegoat. It was not even a big issue for them, but to get what they wanted someone’s head had to roll.

The integrity of my report did not save me (although the quality did noticeably surprise them), but what it did do was give me the foundation upon which to stand. And to everyone’s surprise, stand I did. I refused to take the easy deal they offered (admit I had done ANYTHING wrong with no penalty) vs. a mountain of trouble. They were able to make life very difficult for several others and myself. Lucky for me it soon became apparent that someone else was the weakest link.

The integrity of my report was only an issue until they discovered they could not use the report against me, but they still kept up the pressure (hard). Eventually they got what they wanted when the LO cracked. Funny thing is I agree with what they wanted to do, but just did not want it to be at my expense. If the LO had not cracked they would have kept on me until I did. I eventually came out the other side having gained a little of their respect (it was nothing personal for them). I was just happy I still had my butt.

 

[EDWARD BERRY]

I can print anything that is on the computer screen.


Cut and paste it, put Adolph Hitler's sig and send it back to you.

They ain't no way to prevent fraud.

Thats the way it is.

ed in the backwoods.