Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage law in 2014. Here’s how it’s turned out so far

[Artemis Fowl]

It's interesting that a lot of folks understand there is only so many $ in an economy, ...

I reject the notion that there is a finite amount of wealth and taking a piece here reduces a piece there. Wealth can be created in a capitalistic economy.

 

[Carnivore]

I reject the notion that there is a finite amount of wealth and taking a piece here reduces a piece there. Wealth can be created in a capitalistic economy.

Taking raw materials and creating something that is more valuable increases wealth. that's why think i think manufacturing is very important to our economy. Instead of importing what we need, we should make what we need in excess. then sell the excess to other countries. Woo Hoo.

there are three kinds of trade

1. Trade Surplus
2. Trade Balance
3. Trade Deficit

I pick #1

 

[Artemis Fowl]

Taking raw materials and creating something that is more valuable increases wealth. that's why think i think manufacturing is very important to our economy. Instead of importing what we need, we should make what we need in excess. then sell the excess to other countries. Woo Hoo.

there are three kinds of trade

1. Trade Surplus
2. Trade Balance
3. Trade Deficit

I pick #1

Exactly.

Pop quiz for those who don't understand what I mean. What trillion dollar industry exists today that did not exist 30years ago? Did all that wealth get stolen from somewhere/someone else or is it actually newly created wealth?

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Creating things tends to contribute to wealth. Sounds good.
Seattle has not imploded from the minimum wage law I gather. Or rent control.
I figure they will adjust, and so will everyone else.

 

[alebrewer]

I reject the notion that there is a finite amount of wealth and taking a piece here reduces a piece there. Wealth can be created in a capitalistic economy.

I don't disagree that wealth is not static - much moreso now, than in the past, and due in no small part to technology - e-coin, fractional reserves, etc. The more granular you get, however, with respect to an economy (e.g. world, regional, national, state, county, city, town), the less expansive is wealth creation and, given a 'flat' economy, forced redistribution of wealth (e.g. minimum wage) will result in adverse unintended consequences on the specific group that the redistribution is targeted to assist. In a growing economy, those unintended consequenses are, of course, mitigated.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

I don't disagree that wealth is not static - much moreso now, than in the past, and due in no small part to technology - e-coin, fractional reserves, etc. The more granular you get, however, with respect to an economy (e.g. world, regional, national, state, county, city, town), the less expansive is wealth creation and, given a 'flat' economy, forced redistribution of wealth (e.g. minimum wage) will result in adverse unintended consequences on the specific group that the redistribution is targeted to assist. In a growing economy, those unintended consequenses are, of course, mitigated.

In the past...like Feudalism?
I didn't actually disagree with the premise...just that finite part.

 

[alebrewer]

In the past...like Feudalism?
I didn't actually disagree with the premise...just that finite part.

lol - not so much feudalism - I was just thinking about when wealth was tied primarily to land, and not so much intangible wealth. Land is, by definition, finite, and as such, I would think that an economy where the primary store of wealth is land would be much less elastic than what we have today. Which I guess could have been in a Feudalistic economy.

 

[J Grant]

Exactly.

Pop quiz for those who don't understand what I mean. What trillion dollar industry exists today that did not exist 30years ago? Did all that wealth get stolen from somewhere/someone else or is it actually newly created wealth?

It's not about the creation of wealth, it's the concentration of wealth. USA used to have a larger, prosperous middle class, and the wealthy were rich but not a 1% mega wealthy - now we have a shrinking, struggling middle class and a great concentration of wealth at the top, and the working class - if min wage and wages are so low they need 2 jobs and food stamps, that tells you what concentration of wealth means. Which has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism as if it is an either or - it is what kind of society its own citizens value-

It always can be argued from either side. If higher wages means reduced hours, I'd rather work 30 hours for a higher wage than 40 hours for a lower wage and end up with same money. A higher wage, while it can also lead to inflation, also leads to money put into the local economy as the local working class have more discretionary income to spend- which in turn creates more jobs to make up for ones lost.

That said, any wage is relative to its area, and if Seattle is a high cost area, a $15 hour min wage there might translate in spending power to a $10 min wage somewhere else.
- which i

 

[Artemis Fowl]

It's not about the creation of wealth, it's the concentration of wealth. USA used to have a larger, prosperous middle class, and the wealthy were rich but not a 1% mega wealthy - now we have a shrinking, struggling middle class and a great concentration of wealth at the top, and the working class - if min wage and wages are so low they need 2 jobs and food stamps, that tells you what concentration of wealth means. Which has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism as if it is an either or - it is what kind of society its own citizens value-

And just where is that wealth concentrating exactly? Who is benefiting? Who is politically dominant in those areas? Who has been politically dominant nationally for the past 40 years? Simplify the problem...follow the money...discover just what "values" are at play here. And yes...has everything to do with capitalism or socialism.

 

[Econobot]

If an employee gets more dollars per hour and they decide to work less hours they aren't taking home more of anything other than leisure time. Ultimately not productive and frankly it's more than likely why they are stuck at the minimum wage earning level. Minimum wage jobs are entry level, nobody should be discussing them in terms of the greater economy. Liberals love to talk about folks not being able to "live" on minimum wage. Well that's because it's a high school wage and by the time you're "on your own" you should have some skills that will bring a higher wage. Moreover if the goal is to boost income by raising the minimum wage but data shows people are simply working less to achieve the same basket of goods is their income actually going up or are they inflicting an externality on the employer by putting in less for more? Their income goes up marginally but at the expense of the business and society. The business will pass the additional cost burden on to customers so society gets les productivity at a greater marginal cost. Moreover, businesses seeking profit are savvy and will look for alternatives such as POS systems and reducing benefits to cover the externality that is government forcing them to pay a wage beyond what they would otherwise. Lastly with "undocumented immigrants" risking life and limb to come here the last thing a government should be doing is setting wage rates. It simply encourages more shady black markets in labor because the risk is greater to avoid being caught paying below minimum wage. This encourages people to avoid paying taxes as they can't show records of paying less than legal wages. It's simply more socialist liberal folly perpetrated by career politicians like "quid pro joe biden" seeking to give away free stuff in exchange for a vote.