So Who Is Repsonsible To Verify Permits?

[Mike Kennedy]

I have worked in areas where the building department tosses all copies of permits every year. How are you gonna check them?

There are some areas of the country that permits must be pulled only for cetain dollar amounts, i.e. if the project is under $5000 no permit required. So, a guy says he can enclose a sunporch, make it a sun room, for less than that. It is the same quality as the rest of the home, and now on HVAC. How are you going to check that?

A guy builds a pole barn for $2500. A year later he puts in a concrete floor for $3000. Two years later he encloses it for $4000. Never pulled a permit, non required.

I do not think you can make blanket statements about an appraiser's need or ablility to pull permits. It varies too much between locations and what is typical practice in your area.

In some areas, when permits are issued, that data is put on the assessor's records too.

Bill.....based on the above......in many municipalities, building permits, when closed out and C.O.'s are issued are often "tossed". verify IF the municipality requires C.O. if not, simply state so in the appraisal. same for improvements which fall under $5,000. Appraisers ARE required to research and report use and/or zoning issues which impact the legal, transferrable, use of a subject. If no problems exist, per municipality, cite source and data, with disclaimer regarding the reliability of the source and indicate that future information which contradicts the above may require Re-Appraisal. The data is only as reliable as the source. Value must be predicated on the legal, transferrable, use. If no Municipal Codes exist. Merely state so. Further, in many cases, Assessor's tax any improvements they become aware of, whether or not the are Code Conforming, because they exist. That has nothing to do with the legality of the improvement. Typical Comment, in my market, from Assessors "if it's there - we tax it, if you wish to ascertain it's Legal Use....talk to the Building and Zoning Department".

 

[Deleted member 80407]

Did not read through the entire thread. However, it makes sense to me if there is a difference in what the assessor report's the GLA and what my measurements are of the subject property (especially if the county has 1,500 sq ft vrs 4,400 sq ft), I comment on the sketch page and within the body of the appraisal. A phone call is made to the assessor's office to find the error. At this time, I will ask the assessor's office, "were there any recent or past permits pulled?". Some of the area in which I work, the city's are very strick about permits. Sometimes the county's are very slow in reporting the correct living space.

I suppose the answer to the question depends upon what part of the county you are appraising. In the Chicago market there are requirements for overall square feet, floor area ratio, minimum widths, side set backs, and rear set backs. If the improvements do not meet the requirements, then I will check the grandfather clause. However, if the prooperty has a recent room addition and it does conform to the zoning, I definately will request a copy of the permit. I do not assume variances.

 

[xm72mhd]

I can't argue with thoroughness and accuracy being a desirable goal and attaining that requires detail. I have wondered why the templates SFR appraisers are required to use ask about zoning and not building permits, home inspections or verification of repairs and upkeep over the past several years. Anybody know why?

I think Mike G. is right about home inspections, but by golly I don't know where the line is between appraising and home inspecting. It's fuzzy at best and everybody is going to interpret differently what is required by the job when that happens.

So georgeheredia and Mike Kennedy, I would agree that insisting that your interpretation be a part of every appraisal you review is somewhat draconian and not supportable. Nor does it mean the an appraiser who doesn't check permits is incompetent.

You've got a point, but it is the way you do it, which is good, but its not the only way.

Look for something more substantive to judge the appraisal on.

What are you going to recommend georgeheredia with the 400SF that was supposed to be shop and became living area? Make the appraiser stop and require the owner tear it out before he appraises it? Or just make it the lender's problem? What's the legal appraiser thing or for that matter the reviewer thing to do about it? How should it be handled, now that you know there is a violation of the building code or permit process or what ever?

You jump the appraiser for not checking. OK, you checked and found it wanting, now you know and what is your responsibility to your client now?

Maybe our zealousness to find the perfect appraisal when such a thing doesn't exist is hastening the demise the profession. What happened to common sense. You make a point guys, but building permits are above and beyond in the ordinary case. If yuo see something that needs a home inspector or something like that, then pass it on to somebody who knows.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

I don't consider myself the permit police. Basically I view the property through the eyes of the typical purchaser in the area. Of course, appraisers do become more observant over time. Use common sense; note the obvious.

Example: A home I inspected last week had a new shed within 20' of wetlands. Anyone with a clue in the area knows that an act of the Almightly would be required to get that done legally. Since this was obviously unusual, I checked for permits, which of course didn't exist.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

EDD: "I have wondered why the templates SFR appraisers are required to use ask about zoning and not building permits,"

Because Zoning encompasses and is predicated on Legal, Transferrable, use (supported by C.O. not building permits) ........IN the markets where such Zoning Laws exist.

EDD: "What's the legal appraiser thing or for that matter the reviewer thing to do about it? How should it be handled, now that you know there is a violation of the building code or permit process or what ever? You jump the appraiser for not checking. OK, you checked and found it wanting, now you know and what is your responsibility to your client now?"

Inherent in USPAP's definition of "Legal" Use i.e. conforming, or non-conforming, LEGAL use.

Check off Illegal, analyze and report per Municipality the illegal use, and give no value to such use. or Should you choose ......Subject to obtaining valid C.O. for Municipally reported illegal use(s) which existed as of the Effective Date of Appraisal.

 

[xm72mhd]

EDD: I have wondered why the templates SFR appraisers are required to use ask about zoning and not building permits,

Because Zoning encompasses and is predicated on Legal, Transferrable, use (supported by C.O. not building permits) ........IN the markets where such Zoning Laws exist.

That should settle the question about building permits. It's a detail in the decoration on the icing on the cake.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

That should settle the question about building permits. It's a detail in the decoration on the icing on the cake.

absolutely......and the "cake" is either legally transferrable or not.

 

[Stone]

Bring out yer dead....thunk

Bring out yer dead....thunk

Bring out yer dead....thunk

:new_smile-l:

 

[hastalavista]

Verifying permits on every assignment is a choice by the appraiser.

What would be appropriate for one assignment may not be necessary for another. Market expectations, subject specific influences, and (perhaps, most important) intended use of the assignment all should be considered.

​

 

[Carnivore]

Edd,

you ask why zoning...?

I think you forgot about zoning being an important element of HBU, irrespective of permits.