Solution to contract dilema

[Stone]

I'd like to know where you get your "information."

This doesn't just relate to this thread or to Ms. Grant (please don't take it personally, JGrant, as this isn't aimed specifically at you) but is common to this forum in many ways. Appraisers seem to think they know more about what everyone else is doing than almost anyone likely comes close to knowing. They base broad generalizations on the very limited amount of other appraisals they see (yes, some people do a lot of review work...they still only see a very small sample of what is going on out there and that is probably somewhat skewed because it is work deemed in need of a review). Considering the number of appraisals that are completed every day, it is a bit much for anyone to think they know what percentage of appraisals are good or bad.

This comes up when people assume their practice mirrors what is standard or that their fees are average or...

 

[J Grant]

Stone, I'd agree to some extent, except that the housing collapse, with large amount of inflated appraisals found, and the fact that 40% or more of Americans are underwater on their mortgages for properties they over leveraged based on appraisals with inflated values lends support.

If over the years, (nearly two decades) aprox 50% of the appraisals homeowners or others provide me with turn out to be sheer number hit garbage, is that a coincidence? Especially when appraiser friends I speak to from different areas of the country experience the same thing? Added to the terrible reports seen on review, it kind of paints a clear picture...some choose to ignore it but the evidence was in the media for several years post boom from regions all over the nation....kind of hard to ignore that, even though one can question my direct experience!

(no hard feelings about your observation btw)

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

phased providing contract is to prevent the legions of number hitters/deal facilitators from being able to do what they do

I don't see the contract distorting the "number hitters" ability to distort in the favor of the party whom they think they are supposed to be serving. That is a mindset that says we are to rubberstamp deals. In 2009-11 however, I saw those same folks undervaluing property, apparently for the same reason, by choosing only REO property for comps. They didn't need a contract then??

aprox 50% of the appraisals homeowners or others provide me with turn out to be sheer number hit garbage

maybe they thought your appraisal is garbage too...

 

[J Grant]

The housing market collapse disagrees with your observation, T, and you have made this completely unfounded case before that the number hitters suddenly reverted form and started undervaluing properties after 2009. Beyond your personal statement about this, you provide no proof whatsoever (and if you don't; review reports, which of these reports have you seen to base this on?)

Other appraisers are free to see my reports as garbage, but I know from tracking my values over the years, they were pretty much on target, whereas the values and fudged conditions on these reports are shown to be not MV by data (not just my personal opinion )

 

[CANative]

The housing market didn't collapse because appraisers routinely overvalued the properties. It collapsed because people bought more house than they could afford.

 

[J Grant]

They went hand in hand to a degree. Many of these overleveraged purchases would not have been green lighted had the appraisals not supported the inflated refi targets or sales prices. Back in the boom, prices were higher, but not all appraisals were inflated. Many, however have been proven to be.

 

[CANative]

would not have been green lighted had the appraisals not supported the inflated refi targets or sales prices.

The market is the market and that's what the market was doing in mid-2000's.

 

[J Grant]

Not quite that simple. Some values were inflated during that period, (as now), apart from what the market was doing. And not disclosing adverse physical conditions of properties or neighboring adverse conditions such as backing to a freeway is Misleading or fraud, and is apart from what market is doing.

 

[CANative]

But that's not relevant to the discussion we're having in this thread. How would withholding contract information help with those scenario's.

Ya' know, with me anyway, I pretty much have a good notion of value while I'm still in the driveway. If I have a contract that doesn't conform to this "notion" it makes me curious and skeptical. I makes me work a bit harder to figure out what's going on.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

Peter, I agree it would add an extra layer of time.

Time is the single most valuable commodity we have.

The benefit of it would be weighed against the additional time added.

My blinders are in full block mode - what you propose adds an additional step - i.e., time - to every purchase-related appraisal assignment. I fail to see that as a benefit.

The benefit of it is that it would put number hitters, and pushy clients, at a severe disadvantage. The ethical and competent would have a more level playing field to compete.

The playing field will be leveled when appraisers who are complicit in mortgage fraud are routinely penalized with significant fines - otherwise the continue to play a numbers game, knowing that the odds of them getting penalized are very slim.