Summer Kitchen stip

[RSW]

They may want to know if it is an overimprovement or not.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

it's in Brooklyn, so NYC

"Basements and cellars are very different. A basement is a story partly below curb level but having at least one-half of its height above the curb level. A cellar is an enclosed space having more than one-half of its height below curb level."

"Basements and cellars of multiple dwellings may not be occupied unless the conditions meet the minimum requirements for light, air, sanitation and egress, and have received approval by the New York City Department of Buildings.

Cellars in private dwellings can NEVER be lawfully rented or occupied. (A secondary kitchen for accessory cooking may be located in the cellar so long as approval from the Department of Buildings is obtained prior to the installation of such kitchen.)

Basements in private dwellings can NEVER be lawfully rented or occupied unless the conditions meet the minimum requirements for light, air, sanitation and egress, and have received approval by the Department of Buildings.

(Since the rental of a basement in a two-family dwelling would result in a conversion from a private dwelling to a multiple dwelling, basements of two-family dwellings may not be rented unless the entire building is in compliance with the New York State Multiple Dwelling Law.)

Owners with illegally converted basements and cellars may face civil and criminal penalties. Occupants of illegal basement and cellar apartments face potential dangers such as carbon monoxide poisoning, inadequate light and ventilation and inadequate egress in the event of a fire.

Occupants of illegal basement and cellar apartments may be ordered by the City to vacate or leave any illegal basement or cellar apartment.
For more information and/or complaints concerning illegal basement or cellar apartments call the City's Citizen Service Center at 311. Complaints will be directed to the New York City Department of Buildings."
http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/owners/illegal-conversions.shtml

 

[Natalie117]

I could not even count the number of "summer kitchens" I have seen in my appraisal lifetime here in NYC. My comment has been that it is customary to the neighborhood and has no adverse effect on marketability. Never once have been asked anything else about it.

Guess there's a first for everything.

 

[Webbed Feet]

<....snip....>Of course if it's not permitted some on this forum may take great issue with you not being the permit police in this instance.

Or others on the forum might take great issue with the job not having been correctly done in the first place. Sort of a no-win situation around here on the forum...

 

[Webbed Feet]

The space was lighted, and since the basement was open to the upstairs (no door leading to the basement stairs), I'm inclined to say the the ventilation is adequate.

That's what I will comment on. Adequate, vs. Proper.

Thanks all.

I'd say you're inclined to set yourself up for a lawsuit by inferring you're an expert on everything under the sun.

Good luck to you.

P.S. I don't even know what this... "Appraiser to comment if summer kitchen is properly lighted and vented" means. How can you? Please define "properly lighted and vented" for me? Quote a source for the definition too.

 

[HF Mudd]

I could not even count the number of "summer kitchens" I have seen in my appraisal lifetime here in NYC. My comment has been that it is customary to the neighborhood and has no adverse effect on marketability. Never once have been asked anything else about it.

Guess there's a first for everything.

As most of the buildings I find summer/holiday kitchens in the boros of NYC predate the requirements for CO's, my standard comment in such situations is as follows (yes I'm an all caps guy):

"AS THE SUBJECT PREDATES THE REQUIREMENT FOR A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, THE APPRAISER CANNOT DEFINITIVELY DETERMINE IF THE SUMMER/HOLIDAY KITCHEN LOCATED IN THE BASEMENT IS LEGAL."

 

[rowdydog]

You guys don`t get it, the underwritter works for RELS.

 

[Natalie117]

As most of the buildings I find summer/holiday kitchens in the boros of NYC predate the requirements for CO's, my standard comment in such situations is as follows (yes I'm an all caps guy):

"AS THE SUBJECT PREDATES THE REQUIREMENT FOR A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, THE APPRAISER CANNOT DEFINITIVELY DETERMINE IF THE SUMMER/HOLIDAY KITCHEN LOCATED IN THE BASEMENT IS LEGAL."

This is a useful comment. THANKS!! (I'M AN ALL CAPS GUY MYSELF :icon_wink

 

[Webbed Feet]

"AS THE SUBJECT PREDATES THE REQUIREMENT FOR A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, THE APPRAISER CANNOT DEFINITIVELY DETERMINE IF THE SUMMER/HOLIDAY KITCHEN LOCATED IN THE BASEMENT IS LEGAL."

This is a useful comment. THANKS!! (I'M AN ALL CAPS GUY MYSELF :icon_wink

The only time such a comment would be "useful" is when used in conjunction with CB4. Other than that, sticking in such a boilerplate disclaimer while intending to use CB1 is an act that = sticking your liability into a meat grinder AND, if the market place does have a measurable negative reaction to illegal second kitchens that are known to do little things like invalidate hazard insurance, sticks the credibility of the entire appraisal analysis into that meat grinder as well.

Post 12 says it all. I read other posts that appear to be appraisers in that area attempting to figure out "good sounding" boilerplate disclaimers that they think gets them out from having to do their job, out from under having to require any "subject to" conditions, or both. This may seem intelligent on the surface, but really it is playing Russian Roulette with one's license and liability via a time bomb.

 

[Natalie117]

The only time such a comment would be "useful" is when used in conjunction with CB4. Other than that, sticking in such a boilerplate disclaimer while intending to use CB1 is an act that = sticking your liability into a meat grinder AND, if the market place does have a measurable negative reaction to illegal second kitchens that are known to do little things like invalidate hazard insurance, sticks the credibility of the entire appraisal analysis into that meat grinder as well.

Post 12 says it all. I read other posts that appear to be appraisers in that area attempting to figure out "good sounding" boilerplate disclaimers that they think gets them out from having to do their job, out from under having to require any "subject to" conditions, or both. This may seem intelligent on the surface, but really it is playing Russian Roulette with one's license and liability via a time bomb.

Things are not always as the "appear". None of us are trying to get out of doing our job!

If there is Any NYC appraiser on this forum that has ever once conditioned a summer kitchen to inspection, please speak up. My mentors both have over 25+ years in the market. Neither has ever done a Thing with the summer kitchen except mention its existence in the appraisal and the fact that it doesn't adversely affect marketability. That's what I was taught and this is the first time it's ever come back. Client believes that the reason it did was because the reviewer is in Mumbai....