Supervisor-trainee Question

[dexter_m]

I work for a 1-man appraisal shop as a trainee. I have worked for my current supervisor for a little over two years, and spent a year prior to that working for a residential appraiser doing AMC drudgery. My current supervisor has about 15 years in the field and specializes in ROW/Eminent Domain related appraisal. We do mostly complex, high-fee work for Department of Transportation, Turnpike, and local agencies.

My supervisor and I have had a few impasses in regard to our respective expectations of the supervisor-trainee relationship, and he has encouraged me to seek input from others with similar experiences as to what is reasonable.

During my time with his office, my supervisor has employed two other trainees in limited capacity, but presently and for the foreseeable future, I am the only trainee actively working for him. We have no administrative staff and no certified staff appraisers - it's just the two of us.

I have grown frustrated with the division of responsibilities, as it seems that his expectation is that his role is limited to providing guidance as necessary, attending property inspections, and brainstorming the "big picture" quasi-philosophical elements of the analysis. In short, I believe it would be fair to say that he views our roles as consisting of two entirely separate departments, with mine being "production" and his being "management". I am left to write reports fully independently, including property descriptions, zoning analysis, H&BU narratives, comp research, selection, verification, adjustments, reconciliations, etc. It is not uncommon for his presence in the office to be limited to 3 to 4 hours per day.

I would generally classify his review of my completed reports as cursory at best, with a typical B&A appraisal being reviewed for an hour, sometimes significantly less, with minimal critique or suggested revisions. That being said, our reports typically require minimal revisions on the review side.

What are your thoughts? Is this arrangement reasonable and appropriate? For what it's worth, I work for a 25% fee split, which is not the basis of my concerns. While it sometimes seems disproportionate on its face, it's not that I feel I should necessarily be entitled to a larger piece of the pie, but rather that he should contribute more to the process.

I greatly appreciate any insights you are able to offer. I feel very strongly that I want to make a career in this niche of the appraisal profession, and want to make sure I'm seeing things clearly.

I welcome any follow-up questions my post may elicit.

Thank you!

 

[George Hatch]

I would say that you should be happy you're not dealing with a micromanager. Your boss seems to be displaying a tremendous amount of trust in you, because he/she is responsible for everything they sign. If you were an idiot their limited role in the process would be a highly risky move on their part.

Here's the thing about appraising. Nobody knows everything. What distinguishes the pro from the rookie isn't their static knowledge and what they already know so much as it is their increased experience working the appraisal process. As a working appraiser you will have to be sufficiently self-motivated to work your way through every new-to-you situation you run into. The more often you work the process the easier it will get. If you aren't your harshest taskmaster or your own worst critic then this might not be the gig for you. If you need to be nurtured and cared for this is definitely the wrong gig for you. Your supervisor is there to keep you from hurting yourself as you find your groove - not to hold your hand.

You will more readily remember the things that you have to learn for yourself. So IMO you should pat yourself on the back and count yourself fortunate to have landed in your situation because if it were the other way around and your boss was in your grill every day you would be hating life.

 

[Scott.A]

#1 Are you learning what you need to? I left my first supervising appraiser because I wasn't learning what I needed to. The guy was a great appraiser, but just not a good teacher. The primary concern right now is to learn as much as you possibly can.

#2 Learning is primary, but you still have to pay the bills. My first supervising agent paid me 50%... but it was 50% of a very few cases that just kept getting recycled across my desk over and over again. My second office, the one I'm in now, paid 35% while in training. I just got my license and the pay is now 55%.

#3 Sounds like the guy may be getting close to wanting to retire or at least turn over the practice to someone. Patience could pay off bigly.

 

[Joe Flacco]

What would you like the supervisor to add to his role?

 

[dexter_m]

I would say that you should be happy you're not dealing with a micromanager. Your boss seems to be displaying a tremendous amount of trust in you, because he/she is responsible for everything they sign. If you were an idiot their limited role in the process would be a highly risky move on their part.

Here's the thing about appraising. Nobody knows everything. What distinguishes the pro from the rookie isn't their static knowledge and what they already know so much as it is their increased experience working the appraisal process. As a working appraiser you will have to be sufficiently self-motivated to work your way through every new-to-you situation you run into. The more often you work the process the easier it will get. If you aren't your harshest taskmaster or your own worst critic then this might not be the gig for you. If you need to be nurtured and cared for this is definitely the wrong gig for you. Your supervisor is there to keep you from hurting yourself as you find your groove - not to hold your hand.

You will more readily remember the things that you have to learn for yourself. So IMO you should pat yourself on the back and count yourself fortunate to have landed in your situation because if it were the other way around and your boss was in your grill every day you would be hating life.

Thank you, George.

My residential supervisor tended toward micromanagement, and I certainly appreciate that my current supervisor is not of that particular ilk. If anything, I find myself worried that his lack of oversight puts his, and thereby my, future prospects at risk. But I must bear in mind that he has been at this for 15+ years to my 3ish. I understand that the supervisor is responsible for everything they sign, but sometimes question if they property weigh the gravity of that reality. In other words, I can't see myself as a CG of 15+ years signing the reports of a 3ish-year trainee with the same seeming indifference.

I undoubtedly count myself fortunate to have landed in this situation, but posed the questions I did for the purpose of deciphering if the level of involvement is appropriate or not. I have dealt with an appraiser supervisor "in my grill" everyday, and don't want to go back. My post was searching for a happy medium.

Do you think such a thing exists?

 

[dexter_m]

#1 Are you learning what you need to? I left my first supervising appraiser because I wasn't learning what I needed to. The guy was a great appraiser, but just not a good teacher. The primary concern right now is to learn as much as you possibly can.

#2 Learning is primary, but you still have to pay the bills. My first supervising agent paid me 50%... but it was 50% of a very few cases that just kept getting recycled across my desk over and over again. My second office, the one I'm in now, paid 35% while in training. I just got my license and the pay is now 55%.

#3 Sounds like the guy may be getting close to wanting to retire or at least turn over the practice to someone. Patience could pay off bigly.

#1 - In giving credit where due, yes, I feel strongly that I am learning what I need to. I am roughly half-way through my CG QE classes, and so far, I can say that most of the material has seemed like reiteration of things he has gone over with me at various points in the last two years.

#2 - As stated, I am currently paid 25%. That yielded +/- $40k last year on (obviously) around $160k in gross invoice volume (42 completed appraisal reports with an average gross fee of around $4,000). I am on track this year to make closer to $50k. I am a W2 employee with self-paid group health insurance made available, and a 3% company match on an IRA which is contributed to pre-tax. My supervisor has stated that the best split he can foresee paying a certified and fully independently functioning appraiser is 40%, which has me producing the same volume as this year for roughly $80k/yr. at some point in the future.

#3 - He is 45 years old. He had only opened his own shop less than 6 months prior to my joining him. Biased as my perspective may be, it seems he has already confused self-employment with semi-retirement.

 

[dexter_m]

What would you like the supervisor to add to his role?

As the only current "production" member of the staff, I have been responsible for every appraisal which has flowed through our office this year, save for one. That one report which he was to produce independently (so as, in his own words, not to overburden me) is now currently 45 days late. Additionally, he recently forwarded me an email from a client, informing us of notice to proceed with a report, in which he inadvertently included an email chain with 3 client emails over the course of 11 days, nagging him for a fee quote which he himself admitted only took 5 minutes to generate. This was one of two emails he forwarded me that same day which documented a lack of response on his part over a similarly extended period of time.

At least, I feel it would be reasonable to expect that he participate in some way in the production of the reports to which he has committed himself, and to fulfilling tasks which indisputably fall to the managerial side of the equation he seems to be outlining.

Ideally, I would see him, or myself in a similar role in 15-20 years, actively engaging in the production of the appraisal reports on which my trainees are assisting, reviewing, revising, and reviewing said revisions as necessary. In short, taking an active role in the management of the appraisal process. Though the split is not the basis of my concern, something seems off when only 25% of a fee is retained by someone tasked with 90+% of the work.

Perhaps what I feel is lacking is best served by an analogy - my father has spent his life in restaurant management. For the majority of the time which I can remember, he was making six figures, and well above, in executive management. Nonetheless, I can't count the number of times he came home soaked in dishwater, covered in spilled food, or generally exhausted from the long hours and grunt work which he took upon himself to take part in for the sake of the greater good. When the restaurant got too busy to be handled by the allotted staff, or maintaining exceptional customer service demanded it, he stepped in to help wherever necessary, unconstrained by his title.

 

[cpalub01]

Your experience mirrored my own as a trainee and mirrors most of what I've seen around the area I've worked. The fee split seemed low until I noticed you were a W2 w/ health insurance which adds significantly to that split. Not to mention the initial overhead of the office and data services. On top of that, you're fortunate to be in a good niche with an average gross fee that's probably nearly double what you'd find doing lending assignments. Two of the three mentors I had during my trainee period let me drift as a 1099. Whether you can be an independent contractor when you can't independently complete and sign reports is an argument for another thread (my opinion: you can't... or shouldn't).

At some point, the rubber will meet the road when you're certified and you'll have to ask yourself what your boss contributes to your development and how much longer you "owe it to them" to continue to work for them. In the interim though, ask yourself if the split wasn't management vs. production and he was doing a large portion of the production, why would he need to be paying you 40k plus benefits at, undoubtedly, a loss. There are no economies of scale in a two person shop. I know it appears he's making a lot of money off your back now, but that's kind of the nature of that relationship. When you have more leverage, you can renegotiate or move on.

I know, and have recently experienced, how stressful it can be trying to learn on fly, while making a living, while taking your classwork, while trying to produce credible reports because you're your own harshest critic. I also took time to attend all the local Appraisal Institute meetings and meet nearly everyone that appraised in my local area. When I saw my alternatives out there, I saw it could be much, much worse and that at least I was learning the things I would need to learn in the process of becoming certified. It sounds like, all things considered, you're probably in a pretty good position and should shine it on as best you can. Eminent domain is a fantastic thing to be gaining experience in, btw. I wish I had that opportunity as a trainee from the beginning.

 

[dexter_m]

Your experience mirrored my own as a trainee and mirrors most of what I've seen around the area I've worked. The fee split seemed low until I noticed you were a W2 w/ health insurance which adds significantly to that split. Not to mention the initial overhead of the office and data services. On top of that, you're fortunate to be in a good niche with an average gross fee that's probably nearly double what you'd find doing lending assignments. Two of the three mentors I had during my trainee period let me drift as a 1099. Whether you can be an independent contractor when you can't independently complete and sign reports is an argument for another thread (my opinion: you can't... or shouldn't).

At some point, the rubber will meet the road when you're certified and you'll have to ask yourself what your boss contributes to your development and how much longer you "owe it to them" to continue to work for them. In the interim though, ask yourself if the split wasn't management vs. production and he was doing a large portion of the production, why would he need to be paying you 40k plus benefits at, undoubtedly, a loss. There are no economies of scale in a two person shop. I know it appears he's making a lot of money off your back now, but that's kind of the nature of that relationship. When you have more leverage, you can renegotiate or move on.

I know, and have recently experienced, how stressful it can be trying to learn on fly, while making a living, while taking your classwork, while trying to produce credible reports because you're your own harshest critic. I also took time to attend all the local Appraisal Institute meetings and meet nearly everyone that appraised in my local area. When I saw my alternatives out there, I saw it could be much, much worse and that at least I was learning the things I would need to learn in the process of becoming certified. It sounds like, all things considered, you're probably in a pretty good position and should shine it on as best you can. Eminent domain is a fantastic thing to be gaining experience in, btw. I wish I had that opportunity as a trainee from the beginning.

Thank you.

To be clear on the fee split, yes, I am an employee. The company gives me access to group health insurance, but I do pay for that myself. They match me up to 3% in an IRA, which just started at the first of this year. I am not reimbursed for mileage, although that has not been a significant factor of late. I have been paying for my own QE courses, but they have reimbursed me for USPAP/CE, license renewal fees, and AI dues (I am a practicing affiliate). From what I can gather, the office requires very little in the way of overhead. My supervisor rents a very small office for around $400/m. They pay for a basic CoStar package which I believe runs $300-$400/m, annual MVS subscription, and carry E&O on both me and the boss. We cooperate with several other shops to access some other data sources as necessary (no further details on that). I would say my impact to the overhead versus if he was working solo (aside from actual compensation) is very minimal - my share of E&O, dues/licensing, and CE.

That being said, am I possibly barking up the wrong tree, i.e., should compensation be the focus of my concerns in your opinion?

As for the management vs. production element, I am definitely not feeling as though my hand should be held through the process. But, when the workload is such that it would require superhuman effort on my part to meet all the deadlines entirely independently, it strikes me as reasonable that he would help "move the ball downfield" on reports to which his name and reputation will be attached. There have been times at which I have had 10-12 reports, mostly pretty complex stuff, due in the course of a month. The times he has said he would pick up a report and help make forward progress on it, nothing has been done, and the reports have found their way back to my desk after a few weeks.

 

[cpalub01]

That being said, am I possibly barking up the wrong tree, i.e., should compensation be the focus of my concerns in your opinion?

As for the management vs. production element, I am definitely not feeling as though my hand should be held through the process. But, when the workload is such that it would require superhuman effort on my part to meet all the deadlines entirely independently, it strikes me as reasonable that he would help "move the ball downfield" on reports to which his name and reputation will be attached. There have been times at which I have had 10-12 reports, mostly pretty complex stuff, due in the course of a month. The times he has said he would pick up a report and help make forward progress on it, nothing has been done, and the reports have found their way back to my desk after a few weeks.

The answer to the former is an individual decision. It sounds like you are compensated pretty fairly, in my opinion.

To the latter, I came from a mentor that believed he had to bid on 100% of the potential work he received in a way that he would obtain nearly 100% of the work. Easy for him, I would do the entirety of the production. I fought him over and over about it, arguing he should raise his fees and shoot for a reasonable "batting average". The ones he wouldn't get would be offset (at least partially) by the increased fees of the ones he did, and I would have more time to produce the level of report I was satisfied with. That went over like a lead balloon.

I have no good advice to your situation except to say that if you're truly dissatisfied, there's nothing wrong with socializing with other appraisers in the area and kind of figure out what the typical arrangement is for other trainees (if they even exist) in your area. If I were you, given that you're on a tract where you're gaining experiencing in a great niche, I would just ride it out until you are certified. Once you're certified, you have the opportunity to work for the state (there is a dearth of CG's at PennDOT and dwindling fast) or make a lot of money working on the outside doing eminent domain work for the state and Turnpike Commission, as you are now. You've seen the fees this work commands and I'm sure you're aware how much better it pays than non-specialized work.