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Systemic Practices in our Profession

Carnivore

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I have been completing significant amount of Review Work since the Covid came into play. I do this because it simply is the best way for me to avoid Contact with People I don't know. It does not matter what people tell you, they are all liars or simply won't admit they are bending the Contact limitations. I am not willing to gamble.

I have observed a common pattern in comparable selection; Bracketing of Sale Price at the top of the Grid. In practice/theory its not a bad idea, as long as your actually bracketing Physical Characteristics/Economic Attributes. Twice now this month and one other a few months ago the Appraisers have used that method in their appraisals. The Result is two have over-valued the MV(not significantly). The third one created a lot of unnecessary work for himself., but the MV was good.

So I dug up an old article on this topic. https://appraisaltoday.com/2016/07/21/bracketing-and-USPAP/ This explains it very well.

What I can not understand; Who is teaching them this, or is it the Phone Monkey's using it either on their own or is it some Client desire or demand. It doesn't really matter who is pushing this nonsense. Its just showing up in Appraisal Reports.

I am just blowing off some frustration. This issue and others supports my position that our pre-licensing education/experience requirements has some fairly serious flaws. This also goes in part to Appraiser Independence! It is being compromised.

I feel like I am watching the movie 'Dumb and Dumber' over and over.
 

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
This is a methodology that has been pushed by Reviewers and Underwriters hard for the last few years and the appraisers no that if they dont bracket the Un-adjusted sale's prices, they will get stip from either an-underwriter or reviewer. So everyone has fallen into line, and whether you or I like it the fact is now its a methodology that is being taught and used. I had a long conversation about this a few years ago with a HUD reviewer at my HOC and She insisted that Sale's P had to be bracketed. My argument was that we should bracket our "Adjusted Values' and not the unadjusted Prices. Anyway it did not fly with her. Her reasoning and now almost all he AMC reviewers is that it keeps the Subject from being over-appraised. Where it becomes problematic is when the appraiser is dealing with a property that may be unique, complex, rural or simply not a cookie cutter tract home. This bracketing thing has now gone into almost everything, and its the new appraisal religion. Anyway don't let it bother you, otherwise it will cause you to take your eye off the ball.
 

Elliott

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
I systematically bracket living area to avoid having to provide the 'additional comp' just to satisfy the anticipated stip (usually it becomes the 4th comp or a listing). Rarely, I get called for not bracketing sales price around my market value and then I have to explain why I couldn't.

When you find appraisers are bracketing at the top of the market, what do you do? Do you tend still to agree with their value or select comparables which are more appropriate that indicate a lower value?
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I have been completing significant amount of Review Work since the Covid came into play. I do this because it simply is the best way for me to avoid Contact with People I don't know. It does not matter what people tell you, they are all liars or simply won't admit they are bending the Contact limitations. I am not willing to gamble.

I have observed a common pattern in comparable selection; Bracketing of Sale Price at the top of the Grid. In practice/theory its not a bad idea, as long as your actually bracketing Physical Characteristics/Economic Attributes. Twice now this month and one other a few months ago the Appraisers have used that method in their appraisals. The Result is two have over-valued the MV(not significantly). The third one created a lot of unnecessary work for himself., but the MV was good.

So I dug up an old article on this topic. https://appraisaltoday.com/2016/07/21/bracketing-and-USPAP/ This explains it very well.

What I can not understand; Who is teaching them this, or is it the Phone Monkey's using it either on their own or is it some Client desire or demand. It doesn't really matter who is pushing this nonsense. Its just showing up in Appraisal Reports.

I am just blowing off some frustration. This issue and others supports my position that our pre-licensing education/experience requirements has some fairly serious flaws. This also goes in part to Appraiser Independence! It is being compromised.

I feel like I am watching the movie 'Dumb and Dumber' over and over.
Bracketing is from the pit of Hell and smells like smoke! When they want you to bracket the impossible I refuse to do it and start quoting USPAP about misleading reports etc. In my county you might have 5 comps. Usually it is 3 at best. MOST of the time I will have 1 or 2 good ones and it goes down hill from there. If my thrd comp. is simi-crap or full crap....how do you think I am going to find BETTER comps and/or bracket? Bracketing is using an imptoper method to arrive at a desired number or adjustment percentages. I think you might agree Carnivore at least for our county.-
 

jay trotta

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
I have been completing significant amount of Review Work since the Covid came into play. I do this because it simply is the best way for me to avoid Contact with People I don't know. It does not matter what people tell you, they are all liars or simply won't admit they are bending the Contact limitations. I am not willing to gamble.

I have observed a common pattern in comparable selection; Bracketing of Sale Price at the top of the Grid. In practice/theory its not a bad idea, as long as your actually bracketing Physical Characteristics/Economic Attributes. Twice now this month and one other a few months ago the Appraisers have used that method in their appraisals. The Result is two have over-valued the MV(not significantly). The third one created a lot of unnecessary work for himself., but the MV was good.

So I dug up an old article on this topic. https://appraisaltoday.com/2016/07/21/bracketing-and-USPAP/ This explains it very well.

What I can not understand; Who is teaching them this, or is it the Phone Monkey's using it either on their own or is it some Client desire or demand. It doesn't really matter who is pushing this nonsense. Its just showing up in Appraisal Reports.

I am just blowing off some frustration. This issue and others supports my position that our pre-licensing education/experience requirements has some fairly serious flaws. This also goes in part to Appraiser Independence! It has & is being compromised.

I feel like I am watching the movie 'Dumb and Dumber' over and over.

Agreed - Good article on bracketing; my bold, added has, as it relates to the past also.
 

Renee Healion

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
I stopped doing historic house appraisals for out of state lenders when I was asked to bracket a det garage on a 1700s house in a tiny town where I actually had recent comps of similar vintage.
 

jay trotta

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
I stopped doing historic house appraisals for out of state lenders when I was asked to bracket a det garage on a 1700s house in a tiny town where I actually had recent comps of similar vintage.

Agree, hahahaaaa detached garage bracketing, absolutely hysterical, historically speaking
 

Carnivore

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Demanding/Requiring etc is Antithetical to USPAP.
Bracketing is from the pit of Hell and smells like smoke! When they want you to bracket the impossible I refuse to do it and start quoting USPAP about misleading reports etc. In my county you might have 5 comps. Usually it is 3 at best. MOST of the time I will have 1 or 2 good ones and it goes down hill from there. If my thrd comp. is simi-crap or full crap....how do you think I am going to find BETTER comps and/or bracket? Bracketing is using an imptoper method to arrive at a desired number or adjustment percentages. I think you might agree Carnivore at least for our county.-

Bob, there implying that you are either incompetent or worse dishonest/unethical, accusing you of ignoring the Fantasy World they have in their minds. Does that make sense? No but its the closest I can get to understanding what going on their Cranial Caverns.

Yes, your right about our immediate market. It can be tough.

To answer a Question above about the MV Conclusion. None of them have been way off the mark, except that they are most often high(not by much), well within a reasonable range.

So I have been on a one man warpath over this obvious influence and the infamous Neighborhood section. In effect I am schooling the Checker Dudes and Lenders/clients.
I use Facts, by citing and even cut n pasting the text and source.

I do sometimes find comparable they miss because Agents or their office help are not Geo-coding the listing properly or their using the wrong address, etc. I don't hold that against the OA. I even explain why it happened. In effect I end up defending the OA.

I think what I am really upset about is the attempt to get us to go against 100 years of Proven Methodology. Quite awhile ago FNMA did away with some items in the Selling Guide. The infamous line and gross adjustments commentary/explanation. They did that because Appraisers were going light on adjustments to avoid explaining. It also helped in appraisers not be stip'd to add additional comparable for support.
 
Last edited:

TMG

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
I bracket everything that needs bracketing, i.e. GLA, View, Pool, Lot Size, Condition, Year built, etc, so I don't have across the board adjs. But I don't go searching by price or outside the competing area. I try to make a sandwich with my comps, and have my subject right in the middle. Then I can reconcile if the subject is the mayonnaise on the bottom of the range, or the tomato on the top.
 

Carnivore

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I systematically bracket living area to avoid having to provide the 'additional comp' just to satisfy the anticipated stip (usually it becomes the 4th comp or a listing). Rarely, I get called for not bracketing sales price around my market value and then I have to explain why I couldn't.

When you find appraisers are bracketing at the top of the market, what do you do? Do you tend still to agree with their value or select comparables which are more appropriate that indicate a lower value?

Its often a combination of both. Sometimes I add/replace a comparable. Sometimes I re-grid the original comparable and smooth out the adjustments from the market.

I don't ever set out to discredit the OA. Not My Yob man .... Almost all the Review work is normal QC random Selection.
 
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