• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

The New USPAP

Status
Not open for further replies.
Every donkey who crosses the ethical line is stabbing the rest of the appraisers in the chest.
IF every "Donkey" had 3 appraisals pulled, the I suspect about 90% of appraisers would have at least one violation of USPAP according to some reviewers. Years ago, our former Director noted that a high percentage of reviewers who were turning in appraisers had to submit their reviews and as many of them were in violation of USPAP as was those they turned in. Zero sum game. Game, Set, Match.
 
IF every "Donkey" had 3 appraisals pulled, the I suspect about 90% of appraisers would have at least one violation of USPAP according to some reviewers. Years ago, our former Director noted that a high percentage of reviewers who were turning in appraisers had to submit their reviews and as many of them were in violation of USPAP as was those they turned in. Zero sum game. Game, Set, Match.

there would never be an issue if the appraiser just hit the dang number...hee haw hee haw
 
What kinds of violations? URAR appraisals commonly don't include an HBU summary or exposure time analysis because the form was never configured to prompts for it. The review forms the reviewers use are equally obsolete, and there are a LOT of reviewers who don't understand the distinction between what's required of an appraiser vs what's required of a reviewer. And since the state's actions are what you commonly criticize, are those the kinds violations that appraisers should be seriously disciplined for?

If your state thought those violations were sufficient to discipline for then why does the number of disciplinary actions levied by the great state of Arkansas over the last 10 years only amount to 89 actions? Total. Avg of 9 per year inclusive of all actions from letters to fines to education to suspension and revocation.

0 revocations over the last 10 years
4 suspensions
6 surrenders
22 fines

Prior to me pointing these stats out to you just now, did you realize how few AR appraisers were getting disciplined by your state?
 
USPAP does require perfection...down to the dollar...too low racist...too high number hitter :rof: :rof: :rof:
Nothing in USPAP requires that the appraiser provide a point value. Nothing in USPAP requires perfection.
It is the fault of bad appraisers that there is a public trust issue. Not the manual that says don't do some sheit and provide at least this information.

Every profession has a code of conduct. It is not the code that is the measure of public trust. It is the individual interacting with the public that produces the public opinion.
I agree... it's out fault.. as a profession. We've never been very diligent about enforcing quality standards. The public may not know how to analyze market data to extract adjustments... but they know BS when they see it.
 
@RCA

Only let's not forget competence.

Staying on topic of USPAP and without delving into social or political issues.

Can you define an appraisers competence?
 
@RCA



Staying on topic of USPAP and without delving into social or political issues.

Can you define an appraisers competence?
The best general definition is: "Competence is the ability to effectively and efficiently perform a task or role to a high standard. It encompasses a combination of knowledge, skills, behaviors, and attitudes that enable an individual to achieve successful outcomes in a specific context or job function. Competence implies not only having the necessary qualifications and expertise but also the capacity to apply them appropriately in different situations."

We need a standard or protocol for determining degree of competence. Such a standard might attack the problem from different angles, that is different kinds of tests.

Competence in doing a complex task, is not just dependent on the person doing the task - but also the infrastructure and tools at his disposal. A trained surgeon of many years cannot be expected to successfully remove a stomach cancer without a satisfactory operating area and surgical tools. An auto mechanic with years of experience taking engines and transmissions apart and reassembling them will need al kinds of equipment plus reference books on the engines he is working on that layout the steps to take in execcuting certain procedures. Engineers need standards to effectively design buildings and bridges that meet the approval of government authorities - without having to redo all of their work.

99+% of appraisers do not have the supporting infrastructure of good standards, nor the statistical knowledge and computer assets to do good appraisals in complex residential areas. So I assert that most residential appraisers do not have the competence to do good work in complex areas because of the lack of supporting infrastructure such as satisfactory standards, lack of specific education on the use of advanced statistical tools such as MARS and R, and in some cases a lack of minimum intelligence required to do the job.

Now, needless to say, many existing appraisers don't know what they don't know, so I am wasting my time communicating the above to most.

Tests

1. Differing Values: Given reasonably good sales data, if you have two appraisers that differ in their value conclusions by more than 5%, then there are definitely flaws in the appraisal standards and/or the personal competence of at least one of the two appraisers.

2. Value conclusions are supported by two types of data: (a) Critical measurements (such as GLA and Lot Size) and (b) Explanatory data that simply attempt to explain the residual value. The explanatory data (such as verbal or approximate condition, quality, aesthetics) does not have to be accurate or even correct but should be a best attempt, as they don't impact value since they are protected by a firm residual value. But the critical measurements should be a best attempt at accuracy. If a review appraiser can find a more reasonably effective way to improve the accuracy of critical measurements, then that questions the accuracy of the original appraisal. In particular, if the reviewing appraiser can improve the accuracy of the appraisal by more than 5%, that certainly is an indicator of incompetence. Understand that 5% is not a Golden Standard - it is a suggested Minimum Standard. A good standard should lead two or more independent appraises to value conclusions that are within 1% of each other, although admittedly critical measurements often have to be at least partially estimated. There might be extreme cases where more than 5% deviation must be allowed because critical measurement accuracy is not possible beyond a certain degree, i.e. rough estimates have to be relied on. And a good standard should provide guidance on what degree of accuracy in estimation is required, - there has to be limits. If you can't get reasonable estimates of building area and lot size, then the best you can do if probably some large range - that might very well not meet the given SOW, - leading you to reject the assignment.

3. No one can find any correctable flaws in the appraisal, including measurements or value conclusion, that are improvements to the original appraisal, beyond a shadow of doubt. If you are the best, the only question, is whehter your procedures meet the agreed upon standards and SOW.

... I am sure we could think of more.
 
Last edited:
Nothing in USPAP requires that the appraiser provide a point value. Nothing in USPAP requires perfection.

are you freakin kidding me...i am getting USPAP advice from a poster that needs measuring instructions:rof: :rof: :rof:
 
The best general definition is: "Competence is the ability to effectively and efficiently perform a task or role to a high standard. It encompasses a combination of knowledge, skills, behaviors, and attitudes that enable an individual to achieve successful outcomes in a specific context or job function. Competence implies not only having the necessary qualifications and expertise but also the capacity to apply them appropriately in different situations."

We need a standard or protocol for determining degree of competence. Such a standard might attack the problem from different angles, that is different kinds of tests.

Competence in doing a complex task, is not just dependent on the person doing the task - but also the infrastructure and tools at his disposal. A trained surgeon of many years cannot be expected to successfully remove a stomach cancer without a satisfactory operating area and surgical tools. An auto mechanic with years of experience taking engines and transmissions apart and reassembling them will need al kinds of equipment plus reference books on the engines he is working on that layout the steps to take in execcuting certain procedures. Engineers need standards to effectively design buildings and bridges that meet the approval of government authorities - without having to redo all of their work.

99+% of appraisers do not have the supporting infrastructure of good standards, nor the statistical knowledge and computer assets to do good appraisals in complex residential areas. So I assert that most residential appraisers do not have the competence to do good work in complex areas because of the lack of supporting infrastructure such as satisfactory standards, lack of specific education on the use of advanced statistical tools such as MARS and R, and in some cases a lack of minimum intelligence required to do the job.

Now, needless to say, many existing appraisers don't know what they don't know, so I am wasting my time communicating the above to most.

Tests

1. Differing Values: Given reasonably good sales data, if you have two appraisers that differ in their value conclusions by more than 5%, then there are definitely flaws in the appraisal standards and/or the personal competence of at least one of the two appraisers.

2. Value conclusions are supported by two types of data: (a) Critical measurements (such as GLA and Lot Size) and (b) Explanatory data that simply attempt to explain the residual value. The explanatory data (such as verbal or approximate condition, quality, aesthetics) does not have to be accurate or even correct but should be a best attempt, as they don't impact value since they are protected by a firm residual value. But the critical measurements should be a best attempt at accuracy. If a review appraiser can find a more reasonably effective way to improve the accuracy of critical measurements, then that questions the accuracy of the original appraisal. In particular, if the reviewing appraiser can improve the accuracy of the appraisal by more than 5%, that certainly is an indicator of incompetence. Understand that 5% is not a Golden Standard - it is a suggested Minimum Standard. A good standard should lead two or more independent appraises to value conclusions that are within 1% of each other, although admittedly critical measurements often have to be at least partially estimated. There might be extreme cases where more than 5% deviation must be allowed because critical measurement accuracy is not possible beyond a certain degree, i.e. rough estimates have to be relied on. And a good standard should provide guidance on what degree of accuracy in estimation is required, - there has to be limits. If you can't get reasonable estimates of building area and lot size, then the best you can do if probably some large range - that might very well not meet the given SOW, - leading you to reject the assignment.

3. No one can find any correctable flaws in the appraisal, including measurements or value conclusion, that are improvements to the original appraisal, beyond a shadow of doubt. If you are the best, the only question, is whehter your procedures meet the agreed upon standards and SOW.

... I am sure we could think of more.

To be clear, please understand that there are areas ( mostly out in the sticks or vacation areas with a very slow turnover in properties ) where low R2 values are endemic - maybe as low as 40%. Here again, we need a better standard on dealing with these. Whatever model you come up with is not going to be that reliable. MARS may not even be able to provide a CVR2 value (cross-validated R2 from running on many different partitions of your data set where 4/5ths or 9/10ths are used to create the model and the remaining 1/5 or 1/10 used to test it). -- In such areas, appraisers could be easily off in value by far more than 5%. But, then, your low R2 and CVR2 (assuming you can get one) are proof of what you are dealing with. In such cases I would attempt to prove a minimum and maximum value to give a range and if a point value is required take some interior point of the range - for what it is worth.
 
What is more significant to the profession as a whole is that it is the users who decide what they will and won't pay for. What level of development and reporting they need beyond what they've already been getting. The appraisers don't drive that decision making.
 
Last edited:
did you realize how few AR appraisers were getting disciplined by your state
We are not CA. How many appraisers do you think are here? ~1,000. 10% of CA? and how many complaints were filed there? 250 or so was the latest figures I found. Still more than against architects, engineers, CPAs and lawyers percentage wise.

And changes related to that when they lost the case to the attorney-appraiser was most telling. Further, we saw fewer complaints with time, which might be a natural benefit to having had a very aggressive investigator or two. We had a forumite whom I knew who was so disgusted with the MAI we had for an investigator, that he didn't wait for the board, he just handed him his card and walked out without a word. That's not a disciplinary situation. I've seen his work. He was a Little Rock appraiser and did 2 houses for me in an estate I was doing elsewhere. The reports were fine. But he had a Realtor he had killed one of his "deals" file every time he or his wife was on one of her sales. His wife said "F this" and went to work for the county assessor. Another on this site was going to law school and this same MAI who apparently thought every appraisal was supposed to be an MAI demonstration report, accused him of "lawyering up" over the contribution of the rare basement in the area. He quit because he was weeks away from sitting for the bar and didn't want that on his record if he lost. A year later I found him as an intern at one of the biggest law firms in Little Rock. Tell me he couldn't "understand" USPAP. Thank goodness that MAI investigator got sick and had to retire. If he hadn't there would be 45 appraisers left in the state and they'd all be MAIs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top