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Trainees can help their cause
- Thread starter Terrel L. Shields
- Start date
- Status
Mike Garrett RAA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Some trainees are really great, I have had a couple like that. Motive????? Sure is nice to have someone who can cover things so that you can have some time off.
After much careful thought this keeps coming back to me......"You are the one who approached me! I already know how to make a living doing this, you don't."
After much careful thought this keeps coming back to me......"You are the one who approached me! I already know how to make a living doing this, you don't."
Terrel,
From your reading your post I get the impression that you do a lot of presuming, assuming, and guessing throughout the course of your day. I wont bore everyone with details of my professional background, but I will say that you are quite wrong in your observation of my skill sets.
Your "defiance" as you put it, of basic interview and training techniques has obviously given you quite a few headaches and more importantly impacted your production and bottom line. Yet after all of this it appears that you hire anyone that shows up on your doorstep looking for work. If you didn't recruit these so called "Neophytes", why did you hire them?
Using your posts as a basis for an interview I can come up with a few reasons I wouldn't hire you based on some core competencies that I would require.
1. Building a successful team:
a. You lack the appropriate skills and flexible interpersonal
style to help build a cohesive team.
2. Coaching:
a. You are not currently providing timely guidance and
feedback to help others strengthen specific knowledge/skill
areas needed to accomplish a task or solve a problem.
3. Developing others:
a. In your current role you are not planning and supporting the
development of individuals' skills and abilities so that they
can fulfill current or future job/role responsibilities more
effectively.
4. Stress tolerance:
a. It would appear that you have problems maintaining stable
performance under pressure or opposition (such as time
pressure or job ambiguity); handling stress in a manner
that is acceptable to others and to the organization.
When I interview someone for a position in my group I usually have about 8 competencies that I inquire about. If you were on the other side of my desk I would be asking for the next candidate right about now.
"Thanks for coming in today Terrel, we will be getting I touch with you shortly. NEXT!!!"
BenLuby
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Georgia
Terrell,
I'll back you up to a degree. It is comendable that you still keep the lady who is sick, a sign that your obligation and word mean something to you. Sounds like, with everything she has going on right now, you are about the only stable factor in her life.
As for the one who is more concerned about her and her husbands barn than your reputation, bid her good riddance. She is more worried about her farm than your livelihood, why let a slacker eat up a slot some other person may be motivated enough to fill?
Right now, I am working sixty plus hours a week, and I do my job to the best of my ability.
The best thing my mentor has gotten into me is the fact that I hate to see an appraisal sitting on the desk. I am much happier to see them in the billed stack.
Sooner they go out the door, the sooner the check comes in and I can buy a sammich.
As for your third assistant, if they hate typing, what in the world are they doing in this profession?
I doubt you are a bad mentor, you just do all your B*tching on the internet, from what it seems like, or they know you'll raise cain, then drop it until the next time, all the while paying them.
Keep the ill help, just because that seems to be in your nature, but as for the others, if they are too sorry to give you a good days effort, why in the heXX should you care if they are working?
Enjoy life by taking out the trash. Believe me, you'll feel much better in the morning.
I'll back you up to a degree. It is comendable that you still keep the lady who is sick, a sign that your obligation and word mean something to you. Sounds like, with everything she has going on right now, you are about the only stable factor in her life.
As for the one who is more concerned about her and her husbands barn than your reputation, bid her good riddance. She is more worried about her farm than your livelihood, why let a slacker eat up a slot some other person may be motivated enough to fill?
Right now, I am working sixty plus hours a week, and I do my job to the best of my ability.
The best thing my mentor has gotten into me is the fact that I hate to see an appraisal sitting on the desk. I am much happier to see them in the billed stack.
Sooner they go out the door, the sooner the check comes in and I can buy a sammich.
As for your third assistant, if they hate typing, what in the world are they doing in this profession?
I doubt you are a bad mentor, you just do all your B*tching on the internet, from what it seems like, or they know you'll raise cain, then drop it until the next time, all the while paying them.
Keep the ill help, just because that seems to be in your nature, but as for the others, if they are too sorry to give you a good days effort, why in the heXX should you care if they are working?
Enjoy life by taking out the trash. Believe me, you'll feel much better in the morning.
Terrel L. Shields
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Arkansas
Slacker
"he practices sorcery, ergo is smarter than i." If you can read all that from an interview then I suggest you have missed your calling. You should be filthy rich by now along with all the other tea leaf readers and astrologers. On the other hand you may be sounding more like the banker in Newport, AR that turned down Sam Walton for a loan, so he moved to Bentonville.
A friends brother is a pyschologist consultant. He is hired by large corporations with financial problems to interview their employees. His job is to pick out the ones who will be downsized. His secret to success? decide who the management WANTS you to pick out. There is no "science" to interviewing. Ironic that a mad man shot up his old employer's offices a few years ago. StaffMark. You know the temp service. He wasn't a temp, he was staff. The notion interviews are meaningful in more than a superficial way is only a myth human resources people push to justify their job. By the way, my trainee #2 was human resources director before being downsized with Peterson Industries, a poultry producer. As for me I do not pretend to be either difficult or easy to work for, but I am predictable.
Again, defiant that I am, who can predict a hirlings personal problems - divorce, health problems, or an empolyee's adult child developing schizophenia? And I defy anyone to predict how a sub will view his or her job. Is it a JOB or is it a PROFESSION? Ask that in an interview and you will get the predictable answer, but time only will tell if they mean it.
Second of all, there is a limit to what pressures one can apply to a person who works as a true subcontractor. Under IRS regulations I cannot force them into an exclusive relationship with me or they become employees subject to withholding, etc. Each DO have their choices. They work at home, access data from their office, and do not work out of my office nor on my computers. They can accept assignments from other employers. Real Estate Salesperson rules do not necessary apply w/ the IRS to appraiser employees.
Actually, I have hired 5 people out of perhaps 50 that have applied over the years. Two never worked out well and were gone within weeks. I have had 2 call in the past 30 days or so. When you live in an area of 2% unemployment, the pickins are pretty slender. It is not like having computer savvy, college educated, motivated youngsters eagar to learn and willing to work for peanuts. And, frankly appraising pays peanuts, especially for newbies. Why would anyone be stupid enough to start work in this business if they were really top notch, me included? The up front costs are high, first 5 - 6 mo. you will be lucky to average 2 per week at 50% pay. Crap, the EZ Mart pays more than that. My choice to become an appraiser certainly was not influenced by money. Rather my choice was to accept work in Columbia or Boliva as a geologist or retrain for something where I could sleep in my own bed.
Are my subs profitable to me? Yes. When you have a limited clientele and do not do any mortgage company work, the bank and legal clients who find you too overloaded to handle their work will often find someone else. I remember when I turned down a lawyer for an estate appraisal and it was more than 2 years before she called me again. I have only one client who routinely uses several appraisers, more or less in rotation. If I were going it alone I would have to give up several customers which I find risky in that you have a very few clients (maybe only 3) With the additional help I can service 10 regular clients. If I lose one client, Life goes on basically uninterupted. No one client, not even my best, would cripple me. But If one of only 3 clients bits the big wienie, you have a hole in the workload that will not be filled quickly. My purpose in having subs is to handle to overload. To see that my clients are serviced like they want to be.
One sub who is now certified wants to go it alone but has found out the hard way how difficult it is to do so. I have encouraged her to seek out other bank customers, etc. Next month, I will see if #2 will pass the state test. Next week, he has to get over the hurdle of review of 2 out of 10 reports they have examined, of his appraisals cosigned by me with the state board. If he can so, then the quality of my mentoring will speak for itself.
As for the workloads. I do not mind part time help. What I do mind are part timers who do not keep me informed of what they are doing. And once they accept an assignment, I expect a reasonable turnaround or an explanation why not.
Since this thread has started, I did get two of the subs to sign up for WORD training at the local Vo-tech and they have had their first week. I will be sending both to a Narrative Report Writing Class, too. And I have told all of them we will ALL go to the same USPAP course later this year because of the extensive changes in 2003 USPAP.
"he practices sorcery, ergo is smarter than i." If you can read all that from an interview then I suggest you have missed your calling. You should be filthy rich by now along with all the other tea leaf readers and astrologers. On the other hand you may be sounding more like the banker in Newport, AR that turned down Sam Walton for a loan, so he moved to Bentonville.
A friends brother is a pyschologist consultant. He is hired by large corporations with financial problems to interview their employees. His job is to pick out the ones who will be downsized. His secret to success? decide who the management WANTS you to pick out. There is no "science" to interviewing. Ironic that a mad man shot up his old employer's offices a few years ago. StaffMark. You know the temp service. He wasn't a temp, he was staff. The notion interviews are meaningful in more than a superficial way is only a myth human resources people push to justify their job. By the way, my trainee #2 was human resources director before being downsized with Peterson Industries, a poultry producer. As for me I do not pretend to be either difficult or easy to work for, but I am predictable.
Again, defiant that I am, who can predict a hirlings personal problems - divorce, health problems, or an empolyee's adult child developing schizophenia? And I defy anyone to predict how a sub will view his or her job. Is it a JOB or is it a PROFESSION? Ask that in an interview and you will get the predictable answer, but time only will tell if they mean it.
Second of all, there is a limit to what pressures one can apply to a person who works as a true subcontractor. Under IRS regulations I cannot force them into an exclusive relationship with me or they become employees subject to withholding, etc. Each DO have their choices. They work at home, access data from their office, and do not work out of my office nor on my computers. They can accept assignments from other employers. Real Estate Salesperson rules do not necessary apply w/ the IRS to appraiser employees.
Actually, I have hired 5 people out of perhaps 50 that have applied over the years. Two never worked out well and were gone within weeks. I have had 2 call in the past 30 days or so. When you live in an area of 2% unemployment, the pickins are pretty slender. It is not like having computer savvy, college educated, motivated youngsters eagar to learn and willing to work for peanuts. And, frankly appraising pays peanuts, especially for newbies. Why would anyone be stupid enough to start work in this business if they were really top notch, me included? The up front costs are high, first 5 - 6 mo. you will be lucky to average 2 per week at 50% pay. Crap, the EZ Mart pays more than that. My choice to become an appraiser certainly was not influenced by money. Rather my choice was to accept work in Columbia or Boliva as a geologist or retrain for something where I could sleep in my own bed.
Are my subs profitable to me? Yes. When you have a limited clientele and do not do any mortgage company work, the bank and legal clients who find you too overloaded to handle their work will often find someone else. I remember when I turned down a lawyer for an estate appraisal and it was more than 2 years before she called me again. I have only one client who routinely uses several appraisers, more or less in rotation. If I were going it alone I would have to give up several customers which I find risky in that you have a very few clients (maybe only 3) With the additional help I can service 10 regular clients. If I lose one client, Life goes on basically uninterupted. No one client, not even my best, would cripple me. But If one of only 3 clients bits the big wienie, you have a hole in the workload that will not be filled quickly. My purpose in having subs is to handle to overload. To see that my clients are serviced like they want to be.
One sub who is now certified wants to go it alone but has found out the hard way how difficult it is to do so. I have encouraged her to seek out other bank customers, etc. Next month, I will see if #2 will pass the state test. Next week, he has to get over the hurdle of review of 2 out of 10 reports they have examined, of his appraisals cosigned by me with the state board. If he can so, then the quality of my mentoring will speak for itself.
As for the workloads. I do not mind part time help. What I do mind are part timers who do not keep me informed of what they are doing. And once they accept an assignment, I expect a reasonable turnaround or an explanation why not.
Since this thread has started, I did get two of the subs to sign up for WORD training at the local Vo-tech and they have had their first week. I will be sending both to a Narrative Report Writing Class, too. And I have told all of them we will ALL go to the same USPAP course later this year because of the extensive changes in 2003 USPAP.
Just because I'm filthy rich don't assume I read tealeaves. I prefer to examine the cream in my coffee as it swirls around.
Like appraising, the interview process is a combination of art and science, but it's hardly superficial. It takes practice to hire the right team of people. Without the knowledge gained through the interview process this would be impossible. And the task of actually interviewing people is probably about 1% of the HR professionals job. You can ask your friends next-door neighbors brother in-laws second cousin once removed about that one.
I will agree that there is no guarantee that every employee will perform up to all expectations. But that's were a good training and review process comes in. It's like playing Craps. The house always has the advantage, but there are ways to increase your odds of winning by enhancing your knowledge of the game.
By simply stating the interview and training process is some sort of black magic is like saying that the only bet on the Craps table is the Pass Line. Most new Craps players do just that. They also end up losing all their money.
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
I was going to stay out of this thread, but the heat being generated toward Terrel for whatever his strengths and weaknesses are as an interviewer is generating a little too much smoke.
The nature of our job has certain prerequisites that not everyone in the general population has. In my mind, if a person can do some basic math, read and write reasonably well, the biggest factor after that is self-motivation. Sadly, there is no interview technique that can quantify a person's level of initiative at any given point in time. Even if there was, this is a quality that can vary in some individuals from one month to the next.
Which leads me to point out that which should be obvious. The rationale for a pre-employment interview includes not only an opportunity for the employer to size up the applicant, but also to communicate their expectatations, priorities and prerequisites to the applicant. Not just with the intention of gauging the applicant's reaction, but also to put them on notice of what they're trying to get into. It is encumbant for the applicant to pay attention to this information, elicit additional information on any point of which they don't completely understand, and then to determine if they either have or can develop the necessary qualities so that they can assimilate into the employer's operation. It is not the employer's fault if the applicant, by lying about or overestimating their own skills, commitment and drive, puts themself into a position they can't work their way out of. In short, there is responsibility enough to go around. Talk is cheap, the applicant has to eventually perform. If they find they are in over their head, they need to either negotiate for more time or assistance to bring their performance up to par or (failing that) to gracefully seek a less demanding position, elsewhere, if need be.
The appraisal business is no place for a clock watcher or factory drone. From what I've seen, if there is a deficiency on Terrel's part, it is one of allowing his employees to dictate terms to him rather than the other way around. Negotiation will only get you so far. As with any other job situation, Terr's employees should be thinking about either conforming to his operation or going elsewhere.
George Hatch
The nature of our job has certain prerequisites that not everyone in the general population has. In my mind, if a person can do some basic math, read and write reasonably well, the biggest factor after that is self-motivation. Sadly, there is no interview technique that can quantify a person's level of initiative at any given point in time. Even if there was, this is a quality that can vary in some individuals from one month to the next.
Which leads me to point out that which should be obvious. The rationale for a pre-employment interview includes not only an opportunity for the employer to size up the applicant, but also to communicate their expectatations, priorities and prerequisites to the applicant. Not just with the intention of gauging the applicant's reaction, but also to put them on notice of what they're trying to get into. It is encumbant for the applicant to pay attention to this information, elicit additional information on any point of which they don't completely understand, and then to determine if they either have or can develop the necessary qualities so that they can assimilate into the employer's operation. It is not the employer's fault if the applicant, by lying about or overestimating their own skills, commitment and drive, puts themself into a position they can't work their way out of. In short, there is responsibility enough to go around. Talk is cheap, the applicant has to eventually perform. If they find they are in over their head, they need to either negotiate for more time or assistance to bring their performance up to par or (failing that) to gracefully seek a less demanding position, elsewhere, if need be.
The appraisal business is no place for a clock watcher or factory drone. From what I've seen, if there is a deficiency on Terrel's part, it is one of allowing his employees to dictate terms to him rather than the other way around. Negotiation will only get you so far. As with any other job situation, Terr's employees should be thinking about either conforming to his operation or going elsewhere.
George Hatch
Terrel L. Shields
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Arkansas
Thank you George...but getting back to my original post. Newbies need to recognize simply that they are added to our practice to take the pressure off us...That is, when we are hip deep in appraisal orders, it is not time to either take a vacation without warning or worry an appraisal to death.
If you are taking 7 - 10 days to do a residential report, then you have a large problem. I dare say about day 3 you should have already called your contractor and asked for help, direction, etc. I have been more frustrated by lack of timeliness than any mistake you could make on a report. You may annoy me with too many questions, but I prefer that to not knowing what you are doing or when I can get the next assignment to you. And if you are NOT going to keep in touch with me, then at least have a reliable way for me to get it touch with you.
Many people who would become appraisers have had to make the financial decision to go to work, even if it is at the local Sneeze & Freeze. With the onerous requirements and the 100% liablility the cosigner assumes, a newbie is as much liablity as they are asset. But we need new blood. With the average appraiser being 50++ years old, who will replace us if we do not train them?
That is one of the problems I have with continually piling on new requirements by the ASB and AQB. Eventually it is going to be too expensive to be able to be an appraiser. By the time you learn the business and "pay your dues" as an underpaid assistant, you could be a manager at Wal-Mart at thrice the pay. I have a friend who made store manager at a discount furniture place within 18 months and I was shocked at his salary. At 26 he is turning nearly as much as I am.
ter
If you are taking 7 - 10 days to do a residential report, then you have a large problem. I dare say about day 3 you should have already called your contractor and asked for help, direction, etc. I have been more frustrated by lack of timeliness than any mistake you could make on a report. You may annoy me with too many questions, but I prefer that to not knowing what you are doing or when I can get the next assignment to you. And if you are NOT going to keep in touch with me, then at least have a reliable way for me to get it touch with you.
Many people who would become appraisers have had to make the financial decision to go to work, even if it is at the local Sneeze & Freeze. With the onerous requirements and the 100% liablility the cosigner assumes, a newbie is as much liablity as they are asset. But we need new blood. With the average appraiser being 50++ years old, who will replace us if we do not train them?
That is one of the problems I have with continually piling on new requirements by the ASB and AQB. Eventually it is going to be too expensive to be able to be an appraiser. By the time you learn the business and "pay your dues" as an underpaid assistant, you could be a manager at Wal-Mart at thrice the pay. I have a friend who made store manager at a discount furniture place within 18 months and I was shocked at his salary. At 26 he is turning nearly as much as I am.
ter
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