VA Handrails

[1963Clipper]

Regardless of whether or not it's specifically mentioned in your RLC's appraiser guide, how is a stairway with no handrail NOT a safety issue ? IRC requires it, IBC requires it, etc...

 

[Don Clark]

Regardless of whether or not it's specifically mentioned in your RLC's appraiser guide, how is a stairway with no handrail NOT a safety issue ? IRC requires it, IBC requires it, etc...

I am not referring to my RLC Handbook but Chapter 12 in the VA Official Handbook. I posted a link to that on this thread already.

 

[GA Benny]

Regardless of whether or not it's specifically mentioned in your RLC's appraiser guide, how is a stairway with no handrail NOT a safety issue ? IRC requires it, IBC requires it, etc...

Well that is why it is not specifically stated in the guidelines, because there may be situations where it is not a safety issue and it is left to the appraiser's judgment. For example, if you had only 3-4 stairs in a hallway with walls, or even half walls, on both sides the risk level is relatively low. The appraiser could also consider the age and mobility of the occupants. Even FHA clarified its position on handrails in such a way that they may not be required and they are usually much more strict than VA.

In a broadcast in 2011, Gerry Kifer was put on the spot on this issue and he stated that it was a judgment call, but in his opinion, a fall of 42" or greater should require a handrail. The problem with a statement like from the VA's Chief appraiser is that even if it is not written, because HE said it, it is now policy and appraisers were measuring the fall distance. 41"! It's good!

 

[Don Clark]

Well that is why it is not specifically stated in the guidelines, because there may be situations where it is not a safety issue and it is left to the appraiser's judgment. For example, if you had only 3-4 stairs in a hallway with walls, or even half walls, on both sides the risk level is relatively low. The appraiser could also consider the age and mobility of the occupants. Even FHA clarified its position on handrails in such a way that they may not be required and they are usually much more strict than VA.

In a broadcast in 2011, Gerry Kifer was put on the spot on this issue and he stated that it was a judgment call, but in his opinion, a fall of 42" or greater should require a handrail. The problem with a statement like from the VA's Chief appraiser is that even if it is not written, because HE said it, it is now policy and appraisers were measuring the fall distance. 41"! It's good!

Actually the handbook states "hand rails having a minimum and maximum height of 30 inches and 38 inches measured vertically from the nosing of the threads, shall be provided on at least one side of stairways of three or more risers or based on local code."

:Guardrails, porches, balconies and raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches in height, open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches above the floor or grade below shall have guardrails not less than 34 inches in height measured vertically from the nosing of the threads".

Now, if you wish, ignore all that and just keep your E&O up to date.

 

[GA Benny]

Actually the handbook states "hand rails having a minimum and maximum height of 30 inches and 38 inches measured vertically from the nosing of the threads, shall be provided on at least one side of stairways of three or more risers or based on local code."

:Guardrails, porches, balconies and raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches in height, open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches above the floor or grade below shall have guardrails not less than 34 inches in height measured vertically from the nosing of the threads".

Now, if you wish, ignore all that and just keep your E&O up to date.

That is nowhere in the VA Handbook 26-7. I am extremely familiar with Chapter 12 and it is not there! If I am wrong, please tell me which page.That is clearly coming from some local RLC guidebook which is considered unofficial policy by the VA Central Office.

 

[Don Clark]

That is nowhere in the VA Handbook 26-7. I am extremely familiar with Chapter 12 and it is not there! If I am wrong, please tell me which page.That is clearly coming from some local RLC guidebook which is considered unofficial policy by the VA Central Office.

I pride myself on being honest, and I am a big boy and will admit when I am wrong. I was and am wrong. I was lead to believe that the information developed by the RLC came directly from the handbook. I was wrong. I have one TI that has been inspected, a Liquidation that has been inspected, and a sales of a condo with scant condo information that has been inspected, and 1 I tried to inspect yesterday and the agent gave me the wrong code for the contractors box, and 14 hours later has not got back to me with the right combo. This is all in the past 3 days. So, i am busy and did not search chapter 12 as i should have. I was wrong.

 

[GA Benny]

That is why the Central Office in DC has been trying to get rid of these local guidebooks. Your RLC says one thing while another RLC says another and now we are all arguing over what is official policy when there is no official policy specific to this topic. The Atlanta RLC was even told to discontinue sending out quarterly newsletters because they may contain conflicting policy.

At least its not quite as bad as FHA where each lender has their own requirements as it pertains to policy interpretation.

 

[KenAZ]

Handrails are typically installed for safety purposes so someone does not fall off sideways. In your case, there is a safety wall to prevent someone from falling off the stairs. Yours is is 10x better than a safety rail.

You are good to go

 

[MICHAEL O'BRIEN]

I was always told that if there is more than three steps then the VA wants a handrail. Remember a few years ago getting a reprimand letter, after a VA review, where they counted the 4 steps in the photo and told me there were over 3 steps and I should have called for the railing. Been calling for them since that time with no issues.