Webbed Feet
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Canada
Biting forbidden fruit doesn't excuse one from comparing apples to oranges.
Mr. Wiley,
Your message just does not feel complete to me. You continue to technically make correct statements. Only it seems parts are left out that really need to be discussed.
See my words above on all of these.
Ok, now we have a change. Again, see my words above. What you are leaving out is the very crucial moment just before the appraiser relinguished control to a third party and just after the appraiser did. Every one of your examples would have to involve indemnification and hold harmless acts or ommissions PRIOR to the appraiser relinguishing control of the final work product before delivery. The AP indemnification and hold harmless not only involves possible acts and ommissions prior to this trigger point, due to use of their software, but also during transmission and afterwards when all of those possible acts and ommissions would be occurring AFTER the appraiser no longer has any control over the situation.
More than the above, and I'll get to see if my crystal ball is any good on this one because I'll admit I am taking a WAG on it. But my common sense tells me that no insurance company offers a general liability policy that allows the insured to brainlessly agree to any indemnification and hold harmless clauses in any and all contracts, regardless of how those clauses are worded and regardless of the circumstances, and remain insured for any and all situations of having done so. If there is such an offering available to us in the insurance world, I will predict that something on the order of 90% of residential appraisers could not afford the premiums to obtain the insurance.
So, as you are touting your general liability policy, perhaps you'd be so kind as to post what insurance company is offering the above? A general policy that covers us regardless of what we sign without us forwarding that specific contract BEFORE we sign it to the insurance company in order to obtain a specific writer for our coverage prior to signing?
I don't know about others on the forum, but I would want to see for myself an insurance company that agrees to cover an insured that signs away the farm to cover the gross negligence, AND any and all legal costs, of a not specifically policy covered third party and ALL of the third parties unidentified business partners or suppliers. Because that insurance company just pretty much insured the acts and ommissions of the entire world. Even the lender involved because the lender, the appraiser's client, probably sent "data" through AP to the appraiser and so became a "data" provider. I want to see the premium for that kind of coverage.
Mr. Wiley, I agree with your suggestion. I am sure many appraisers have done exactly as you suggest. I could be completely incorrect in my thinking this morning. But at the moment I bet a "good" general liability policy that actually 100% covers an appraiser AFTER the fact of giving up control, covers the acts and ommissions endlessly and forever of other parties that are not covered and not named in the policy, that occur after that point in time of the passing of control, doesn't really exist.
At this moment I would think the only action to limit the liabilty would be to negociate the contract so that the other parties possible forms of negligence are NOT protected from litigation by the appraiser. Everyone can go see now if I am right or wrong. I'll be interested in the answers.
Webbed.
Mr. Wiley,
Your message just does not feel complete to me. You continue to technically make correct statements. Only it seems parts are left out that really need to be discussed.
Apples to oranges. In this case the appraiser has not given up control of being able to positively, for certain, the ability of being able to review the final product prior to transmission to the appraiser's client. There is no concern that some third party in the middle of that transmission may be altering the final product or perhaps not really delivering the final product in full. Nor is there a conversion program that the appraiser's basic form software company has in the past complained about not being adequate for a 100% true conversion of what that form software company is providing to their customers. The appraisers work product being thrown out of a WYSIWYG situation, their digital signature being made vulnerable and taken out of their control, (See USPAP.. I know you know all about this.) and the appraisers having no idea what in fact is really being delivered on the opposite end of the transmission to their client.
See my words above on all of these.
Ok, now we have a change. Again, see my words above. What you are leaving out is the very crucial moment just before the appraiser relinguished control to a third party and just after the appraiser did. Every one of your examples would have to involve indemnification and hold harmless acts or ommissions PRIOR to the appraiser relinguishing control of the final work product before delivery. The AP indemnification and hold harmless not only involves possible acts and ommissions prior to this trigger point, due to use of their software, but also during transmission and afterwards when all of those possible acts and ommissions would be occurring AFTER the appraiser no longer has any control over the situation.
More than the above, and I'll get to see if my crystal ball is any good on this one because I'll admit I am taking a WAG on it. But my common sense tells me that no insurance company offers a general liability policy that allows the insured to brainlessly agree to any indemnification and hold harmless clauses in any and all contracts, regardless of how those clauses are worded and regardless of the circumstances, and remain insured for any and all situations of having done so. If there is such an offering available to us in the insurance world, I will predict that something on the order of 90% of residential appraisers could not afford the premiums to obtain the insurance.
So, as you are touting your general liability policy, perhaps you'd be so kind as to post what insurance company is offering the above? A general policy that covers us regardless of what we sign without us forwarding that specific contract BEFORE we sign it to the insurance company in order to obtain a specific writer for our coverage prior to signing?
I don't know about others on the forum, but I would want to see for myself an insurance company that agrees to cover an insured that signs away the farm to cover the gross negligence, AND any and all legal costs, of a not specifically policy covered third party and ALL of the third parties unidentified business partners or suppliers. Because that insurance company just pretty much insured the acts and ommissions of the entire world. Even the lender involved because the lender, the appraiser's client, probably sent "data" through AP to the appraiser and so became a "data" provider. I want to see the premium for that kind of coverage.
Mr. Wiley, I agree with your suggestion. I am sure many appraisers have done exactly as you suggest. I could be completely incorrect in my thinking this morning. But at the moment I bet a "good" general liability policy that actually 100% covers an appraiser AFTER the fact of giving up control, covers the acts and ommissions endlessly and forever of other parties that are not covered and not named in the policy, that occur after that point in time of the passing of control, doesn't really exist.
At this moment I would think the only action to limit the liabilty would be to negociate the contract so that the other parties possible forms of negligence are NOT protected from litigation by the appraiser. Everyone can go see now if I am right or wrong. I'll be interested in the answers.
Webbed.
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